Lets examine the momentum of Wilder's last 2 opponents

[Vinnykin]

Based upon what exactly.



I would hope so.

Yes it does. Especially when you get stopped in 7.



Then don't take the fight. If you're not ready for it then you're not ready. Don't whine about circumstances after the fact.


Tony Thompson, Bryant Jennings, Malik Scott and a stoppage victory in 7 against a guy Whyte didn't even drop. All readily observable on boxrec.

Easily. Whyte got stopped in 7 against Joshua and hasn't even fought Browne yet. You're counting a loss and a fight that hasn't taken place. What if Dillian Whyte pulls a muscle patting himself in the back. What if Browne pops positive for PEDs before the fight? Then the fight doesn't happen. Kind of like Wilder's fight with Alexander Povetkin (I am sure you know who that is) fell apart when Povetkin tested positive. But I guess in your rush to give Whyte credit for a fight that didn't happen you forgot to give Wilder for this fight that didn't happen.






The WBC had Stiverne as the mandatory. That's on them. If Wilder doesn't take that fight he loses the belt. And he was originally scheduled to fight Ortiz that night before Ortiz' piss test came out dirty.

1. based upon the fact that Ortiz is 38, is a drug cheat (recent) and hasn't had a competitive fight in a long time.....Whyte has fought legit, ranked opponents (chisora and Helenius) you can't argue this, so stop trying.
2. Whyte got stopped but at least he fought a legit opponent, Ortiz has not fought any one on AJ's level. (discrediting someone for actually taking a tough fight, *** you!)
3.Whyte didn't have a promoter or any management, he took the fight and didn't want to pull out, this is a guy who had been banned and was struggling financially, again, **** YOU! lol)
4.Jennings was a fight, TT was not, Allen was not, Scott was not a fight. So Ortiz hasn't had a fight in 2.... over 2 years!!!!.... sorry, does it make it easier knowing he hasn't had a fight in 2 instead of 3 years!
5.I'm counting the fact that Whyte has clearly tried to fight the best, Joshua, Chisora, chased Wilder who rejected him to fight Ortiz (and who hadn't been in competitive fights).....and is now fighting Browne.....he has a track record of fighting whoever and will NOT reject any one!........compare him to Wilder and the top 10 guys hehas avoided since he turned pro......ust try and explain it.

Whyte>Wilder when it comes to heart and who will take a fight.

[Vinnykin]

I noticed you avoided my questions & keep bringing up old sh^t cuz your opinion is weak. This is getting embarrassing for you bro.

If you wanna legit discuss this & bring up valid things fair play, but you set the perimeters & now you're trying to change them + not answering my legit questions to you as I've answered a ton of questions you've made to me.

Sorry if I have avoided questions, if you haven't noticed, I'm drunk.....and replying to 10 different people, its hard to keep a concise argument going.

I'll check in tomorrow once I'm up and see what damage I have done.....just know this, Ortiz is shot to fack mate! he's done, he an't fight more than 4 rounds as Wilder already knows......it's a joke fight.

I'll enjoy coming back here after, once you see what I mean. March 3rd baby. Ortiz is getting retired and Wilder will be the new boogeyman oh Lord yee hah!!!!!

[Just looking]

Okay, let's be honest here. This thread only started because some people are mad that Wilder isn't fighting Whyte next. So what? He is fighting the highest ranking contender. Doesn't matter what you think, the guy is there and undefeated. You want Wilder vs Whyte? Calm down, if both win it's probably the next on the line. Let's stop this **** of downplaying Ortiz and transforming Takam in Holyfield, it's a shame for you, this forum and boxing in general

[yankees7448]

1. based upon the fact that Ortiz is 38, is a drug cheat (recent) and hasn't had a competitive fight in a long time.....

.and is now fighting Browne....

So let me get this straight. You're going to call Ortiz a recent drug cheat even though the sanctioning body cleared him but you're also going to hype up Whyte's decision to fight Lucas Browne....a guy who was actually stripped of his heavyweight title because he tested positive for PEDs. Gotta love the hypocrisy.

2. Whyte got stopped but at least he fought a legit opponent, Ortiz has not fought any one on AJ's level. (discrediting someone for actually taking a tough fight, *** you!)

I ain't discrediting Whyte for taking a tough fight. He stepped up. Good on him. But he lost. Unlike you I don't hype up someone for getting stopped in the 7th round because I know you can't win a championship belt via moral victory.

Whyte has fought legit, ranked opponents (chisora and Helenius) you can't argue this, so stop trying.

\

First of all, did you watch the Whyte/Helenius fight? Secondly, did you manage to stay awake the whole way through. I honestly don't think anyone should be proud of that fight or consider Helenius a quality win after that performance. Nevermind the fact that Helenius was stopped by Wilder's sloppy seconds. Helenius had a glossy record but he ******.

As for Derek Chisora. Its amazing that you are hyping him up. Sure, he fought alot of top guys. Cong****. But HE LOST EACH AND EVERY TIME. Losing to one top guy doesn't end your career. But when as often as Chisora has in the fashion he loses (usually gets dominated) then that makes you a gatekeeper. I.E: A win over him is nothing to crow about. Moreover, Chisora's biggest wins came against Kevin Johnson and Malik Scott. This is what you said about Malik Scott

Scott was not a fight.

.

So if Malik Scott is not "a fight" but represents one of Chisora's two best victories then Chisora's name is all the more meaningless an addition to Dillian Whyte's resume. By the way, Chisora almost won that fight. He won on one of the judge's scorecards and lost the other two cards by a COMBINED 3 POINTS. So cong**** Dillian Whyte. He barely beat someone who usually gets dominated whenever he steps up.

4.Jennings was a fight, TT was not, Allen was not, Scott was not a fight. So Ortiz hasn't had a fight in 2.... over 2 years!!!!.... sorry, does it make it easier knowing he hasn't had a fight in 2 instead of 3 years!

It still doesn't change the fact that Whyte's resume pales in comparison to Ortiz's.

5.I'm counting the fact that Whyte has clearly tried to fight the best, Joshua,

And he lost so who cares.

Chisora, chased Wilder who rejected him to fight Ortiz (and who hadn't been in competitive fights)...

Chisora is a ****ing gatekeeper and Whyte barely got past him. Big whoop.


Whyte>Wilder when it comes to heart and who will take a fight.[/QUOTE]

Kings don't chase peasants. Peasants need to earn their shot at the king. Whyte hasn't done that yet.

[yankees7448]

Okay, let's be honest here. This thread only started because some people are mad that Wilder isn't fighting Whyte next. So what? He is fighting the highest ranking contender. Doesn't matter what you think, the guy is there and undefeated. You want Wilder vs Whyte? Calm down, if both win it's probably the next on the line. Let's stop this **** of downplaying Ortiz and transforming Takam in Holyfield, it's a shame for you, this forum and boxing in general

Its so ridiculous that people are so pissed he chose to fight a better opponent rather than fight Anthony Joshua's sloppy seconds.

[N/A]

Ok. answer this question honestly. In January 2015, who was better than Stiverne in the HW division?

Here is the TBRB top 10 from January 2015:

1. Alexander Povetkin
2. Tyson Fury
3. Bermane Stiverne
4. Kubrat Pulev
5. Carlos Takam
6. Deontay Wilder
7. Vyacheslav Glazkov
8. Bryant Jennings
9. Steve Cunningham
10. Mike Perez


Based on what each of those fighters had accomplished up until that point, I don't see any way you could logically have Stiverne outside of the top 3 back then. He held the most prestigious title in boxing. Pulev & Takam hadn't accomplished anything nearly that notable.

[juggernaut666]

1. Barry said that yes, he is better lighter, but he has had NO problems with stamina ever.....using a quote to fit you argument.
2.Parker has shown stamina in later rounds, Ortiz has not.
3.he can still land when going backwards, and can slip punches on the ropes. (all skills needed and not shown by other HW's)
4. Parker can move the best, bend his body, move his head and is the most athletic and balanced of the HW champions. you proved nothing here lol
5.Parker has proven his jab at world level, Ortiz is old and has not....did I mention he was old? oh, and he hasn't fought any one to judge the jab on......and he's old.
6. Parker was young and Takam was a good learning fight for him, no shame in having a close fight with Takam, ask Povetkin and AJ.
7. I would bet on Fury doing that to EVERY HW in the division, he is the best defensive boxer by a mile, wakward, and would make Wilder and AJ look just as bad if not worse.
8. Prove ortiz is 38, he looks older and even slower than 41 year old Klitshcko. I think Klit would beat him now. at least he has fought at a high level in the last 10 months.
9.I'd wager Fury, Takam and Ruiz would beat Ortiz now, yes, Ortiz is ****, I've seen him box u close vs Allen, he is 70 years old

1 . I never said Parker has stamina issues ,he does drop punch volume after he reaches his highest punch counts and takes rounds off and avoids exchanges . Lets just speculate he will have better performance at a 235 mark , right? Can he get to that mark again ?

2 .What late rnd has Ortiz lost ? Didnt Takam win the last rnd to heaving Parker ? Yet bring up stamina as Ortiz issue?

3 .Anyone can land going backwards if they are forced to adapt by being bullied . It s again pure speculation how Parker reacts against an ACTUAL skilled guy who is bigger than he is ,his history suggests hes in over his head bc he was bullied by a short overweight kid and a lumbering 6'7 one who hardly threw punches .

4. Parker has to move around more and waste unecessary energy bc he has failed to learn to keep his ground with punches that keep opponents at distance .The punch stats i posted is a clear indication Ortiz would pick him apart .

5 .Parker has proven his jab is at world level now ? Do you know what a superior jab consists of? Its a direct accurate power shot that keeps an opponent at bay . Parkers jab is consistent but like all his punches its an arm punch , more distraction tactic , he has to double it up and its like a wet newspaper compared to an Ortiz jolting shot .

6 .Takam didnt have a close fight with AJ . He lost every round . Joshua did more damage physically in 3 rnds than Parker did in a 12 rnd fight,and Parker was stunned twice . Joshua did most of the damage with about 30 power punchers ....... Parker did no damage in 12 rnds and over a 100 power punches landed . !

7 . Fury is not the best defensive fighter . Defensive skill does not include staying out of distance . The art of defense is staying in range while avoided getting hit while landing your own shots . This puts Joshua at number one statistically even though Wilder is the least hit .

8. I didnt say what Ortiz age was , i know you said 60 .Therefor you would have to put your emotional interest aside in this and put forth proof .

9. You could wager who beats who all you like . Your own logical set up tells me you lack alot . Remember you also taunted me in the past and disappeared when Klitchko lost to Joshua !


Really your thread is a disaster ,its a disaster bc Ortiz IS the best guy Wilder could fight . Keep fishing though , you've been busted up on your own thread and its bc your own basis of Ortiz isnt the best guy in the current WBC , is nonsense bc its not backed up with anything that proves otherwise.

To think some of the guys you even listed that YOU would favor over Ortiz shows me how little you know in the placing of fighters but you can blame it on drinking i guess !




"Ortiz is old and finished as a boxer, face facts, it's not 2106 man."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


SPECULATION . The forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence .

[Vinnykin]

So let me get this straight. You're going to call Ortiz a recent drug cheat even though the sanctioning body cleared him but you're also going to hype up Whyte's decision to fight Lucas Browne....a guy who was actually stripped of his heavyweight title because he tested positive for PEDs. Gotta love the hypocrisy.



I ain't discrediting Whyte for taking a tough fight. He stepped up. Good on him. But he lost. Unlike you I don't hype up someone for getting stopped in the 7th round because I know you can't win a championship belt via moral victory.
\

First of all, did you watch the Whyte/Helenius fight? Secondly, did you manage to stay awake the whole way through. I honestly don't think anyone should be proud of that fight or consider Helenius a quality win after that performance. Nevermind the fact that Helenius was stopped by Wilder's sloppy seconds. Helenius had a glossy record but he ******.

As for Derek Chisora. Its amazing that you are hyping him up. Sure, he fought alot of top guys. Cong****. But HE LOST EACH AND EVERY TIME. Losing to one top guy doesn't end your career. But when as often as Chisora has in the fashion he loses (usually gets dominated) then that makes you a gatekeeper. I.E: A win over him is nothing to crow about. Moreover, Chisora's biggest wins came against Kevin Johnson and Malik Scott. This is what you said about Malik Scott .

So if Malik Scott is not "a fight" but represents one of Chisora's two best victories then Chisora's name is all the more meaningless an addition to Dillian Whyte's resume. By the way, Chisora almost won that fight. He won on one of the judge's scorecards and lost the other two cards by a COMBINED 3 POINTS. So cong**** Dillian Whyte. He barely beat someone who usually gets dominated whenever he steps up.




It still doesn't change the fact that Whyte's resume pales in comparison to Ortiz's.


And he lost so who cares.

Chisora is a ****ing gatekeeper and Whyte barely got past him. Big whoop.


Whyte>Wilder when it comes to heart and who will take a fight.

Kings don't chase peasants. Peasants need to earn their shot at the king. Whyte hasn't done that yet.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, TL;DR

[Vinnykin]

Here is the TBRB top 10 from January 2015:

1. Alexander Povetkin
2. Tyson Fury
3. Bermane Stiverne
4. Kubrat Pulev
5. Carlos Takam
6. Deontay Wilder
7. Vyacheslav Glazkov
8. Bryant Jennings
9. Steve Cunningham
10. Mike Perez


Based on what each of those fighters had accomplished up until that point, I don't see any way you could logically have Stiverne outside of the top 3 back then. He held the most prestigious title in boxing. Pulev & Takam hadn't accomplished anything nearly that notable.

Don't talk ****e man. Stiverne has not proven himself to be above Fury, povetkin, Klitschko etc

Are you seriousoy saying that Stiverne was top 5 or even top 10 when he held the WBC? Holding a belt does not make you one of the best fighters in the world, and I don't care how "prestigious" the WBC is, he didn't beat any one to win it.....

you're an idiot if you think Stiverne was top 10, never mind top 3 in the world when he was champion.

[Vinnykin]

1 . I never said Parker has stamina issues ,he does drop punch volume after he reaches his highest punch counts and takes rounds off and avoids exchanges . Lets just speculate he will have better performance at a 235 mark , right? Can he get to that mark again ?

2 .What late rnd has Ortiz lost ? Didnt Takam win the last rnd to heaving Parker ? Yet bring up stamina as Ortiz issue?

3 .Anyone can land going backwards if they are forced to adapt by being bullied . It s again pure speculation how Parker reacts against an ACTUAL skilled guy who is bigger than he is ,his history suggests hes in over his head bc he was bullied by a short overweight kid and a lumbering 6'7 one who hardly threw punches .

4. Parker has to move around more and waste unecessary energy bc he has failed to learn to keep his ground with punches that keep opponents at distance .The punch stats i posted is a clear indication Ortiz would pick him apart .

5 .Parker has proven his jab is at world level now ? Do you know what a superior jab consists of? Its a direct accurate power shot that keeps an opponent at bay . Parkers jab is consistent but like all his punches its an arm punch , more distraction tactic , he has to double it up and its like a wet newspaper compared to an Ortiz jolting shot .

6 .Takam didnt have a close fight with AJ . He lost every round . Joshua did more damage physically in 3 rnds than Parker did in a 12 rnd fight,and Parker was stunned twice . Joshua did most of the damage with about 30 power punchers ....... Parker did no damage in 12 rnds and over a 100 power punches landed . !

7 . Fury is not the best defensive fighter . Defensive skill does not include staying out of distance . The art of defense is staying in range while avoided getting hit while landing your own shots . This puts Joshua at number one statistically even though Wilder is the least hit .

8. I didnt say what Ortiz age was , i know you said 60 .Therefor you would have to put your emotional interest aside in this and put forth proof .

9. You could wager who beats who all you like . Your own logical set up tells me you lack alot . Remember you also taunted me in the past and disappeared when Klitchko lost to Joshua !


Really your thread is a disaster ,its a disaster bc Ortiz IS the best guy Wilder could fight . Keep fishing though , you've been busted up on your own thread and its bc your own basis of Ortiz isnt the best guy in the current WBC , is nonsense bc its not backed up with anything that proves otherwise.

To think some of the guys you even listed that YOU would favor over Ortiz shows me how little you know in the placing of fighters but you can blame it on drinking i guess !




"Ortiz is old and finished as a boxer, face facts, it's not 2106 man."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


SPECULATION . The forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence .

All your info is from Ortiz fights that are over 2 years ago, you can't compare Parker and ortiz fairly, you are just speculating.....

just admit you don't know what Ortiz has as he hasn't fought a decent opponent in over 2 years.