Was Larry Holmes….”The Greatest”?

[BKM-]

LOL!!! C'mon man! Weaver and Smith were both geriatrics when Holmes beat them the second time; they were rolled to the ring in wheel chairs. You can't count that "Legends of Boxing" tournament when looking at Larry's carreer. So he was the best Old Guy out there, okay.

Spinks was the former light heavyweight champion who put on some weight to challenge Holmes, so, yes...he was a blown up light heavyweight. Mike beat an old Holmes once, stopped a Gerry Cooney who hadn't fought in two years and had been battling an alcohol addiction...Gerry was clearly not ready for a title shot. And Michael beat some other heavyweight named Tangstead, I think. Who the hell is that? No, Michael Spinks was a great Light-Heavyweight; but only a pretty good heavyweight who came along and challenged the champion at the right time.

Ok so Bonehugger and Weaver lost their diapers LONG TIME AGO. True ha ha. But they still weren't guys you can easily ko just like that. Im sticking with Larry Holmes beating Mercer and going the decision with the real deal long after Michael. The point was simply that if Holmes really AGED at 35, he wouldn't have been as good as he was later in his career.

Blown up LHW or not, when you got the skills, you hot. And as far as Gerry Cooney not being ready, kinda the same as Tyson-Douglass ain it? But yeah sure, he wasnt really ready. The point is, Spinks had so much skill, his weight didnt matter. He was a good heavyweight.

[BKM-]

holyfield was at a big style disadvantage and overcame it though. Good discussion.

Why wont you answer my post

[K-DOGG]

take a look at Trevor Berbick (WBC), James Smith (WBA), Pinklon Thomas (WBC), Tony Tucker (IBF), Tony Tubbs (WBA), Larry Holmes (Lineal), Michael Spinks (lineal)

Do you really think Berbick, Smith, Thomas and a washed up Holmes deserve to be mentioned as if they are the same caliber as Foreman, Bowe, Lewis, Tyson or Moorer? And Foreman was more dangerous in his old age against certain opponents, particularly swarmers, which is why Mike Tyson ducked George Foreman at age 22 or 23 when King offered him the fight, claiming it would put him back on the map and earn him millions. Tyson declined

Mike can't help it when he was born or when he reached his peak and shouldn't be judged because the late 80's weren' quite as good as the '90's. A fighter can only be judged on what he did do, not how he supposedly could have done..not in my book. Everybody does it differently; but to me, the only fair way is to look at the accomplisments. Berbick, Smith, Thomas, Tubbs, Tucker, Spinks, and Holmes were the top fighters around when Mike came to town and he cleaned house. Could Evander have beaten the same men at that time? Maybe; but we don't know. If Mike hadn't gone to prison and fought Evander in 1991 or 92 would he have beaten him? We don't know. Would Mike have beaten the Holyfield who was dropped by Cooper and rocked by Foreman? Would Mike have beaten the Lewis who was still under the tutledge of Pepe Corea and was stopped in 2 by Mike's old sparring partner? See? Speculation can go either way; but if you look at in ring accomplishments, you have a more solid form of concrete, so to speak...so that's what I try to do.

[Mike Tyson77]

Mike can't help it when he was born or when he reached his peak and shouldn't be judged because the late 80's weren' quite as good as the '90's. A fighter can only be judged on what he did do, not how he supposedly could have done..not in my book. Everybody does it differently; but to me, the only fair way is to look at the accomplisments. Berbick, Smith, Thomas, Tubbs, Tucker, Spinks, and Holmes were the top fighters around when Mike came to town and he cleaned house. Could Evander have beaten the same men at that time? Maybe; but we don't know. If Mike hadn't gone to prison and fought Evander in 1991 or 92 would he have beaten him? We don't know. Would Mike have beaten the Holyfield who was dropped by Cooper and rocked by Foreman? Would Mike have beaten the Lewis who was still under the tutledge of Pepe Corea and was stopped in 2 by Mike's old sparring partner? See? Speculation can go either way; but if you look at in ring accomplishments, you have a more solid form of concrete, so to speak...so that's what I try to do.

Tysons accomlishments from 85'-90' are enough to grant him ATG status. Winning back the WBC and WBA belts after his prime is just iceing on the cake.

[K-DOGG]

Ok so Bonehugger and Weaver lost their diapers LONG TIME AGO. True ha ha. But they still weren't guys you can easily ko just like that. Im sticking with Larry Holmes beating Mercer and going the decision with the real deal long after Michael. The point was simply that if Holmes really AGED at 35, he wouldn't have been as good as he was later in his career.

Blown up LHW or not, when you got the skills, you hot. And as far as Gerry Cooney not being ready, kinda the same as Tyson-Douglass ain it? But yeah sure, he wasnt really ready. The point is, Spinks had so much skill, his weight didnt matter. He was a good heavyweight.

Okay, I'll concede the Spinks point. You make a good arguement and I can agree with that synopsis.

Holmes essentially changed his style and was reenergized after his retirement. He had an attitude adjustment, so to speak. He didn't fight the same when he came back after Mike knocked him out because he couldnt' fight like that any more...he had to fight like an Old Larry Holmes, which he was. He out-thought as well as out-fought Ray Mercer. Ray lost that fight because he fought ******. Larry laid in the corner and used his experience and guile against a man who thought he was gonna knock him out; but only had brute strength with very little technique. He was taylor made for Holmes. Larry didn't do much better than give a decent account of himself against other good fighers from that era, losing to Holyfield and McCall....I thought he could have beaten McCall; but Larry seemed to give up after the 8th or 9th.

Larry was old at 35. 90% of boxers are...he just adapted in his 3rd career.

[SquareCircle]

True, earlier in the thread I was scolding someone else for comparing opponents from different eras, here I am doing the same thing. It's hard to not compare those opponents though, not only because of how far apart they would rank on an all time great scale, with Holyfield's opposition ranking closer to #1 with Tyson's ranking closer to #100, but because the eras are very close to each other, unlike Johnson and modern times, as stated earlier in the thread. so my bad for that, but it was too hard for me to not mention because I really consider the guys Holy fought miles and miles above what Mike fought. I don't really even blame Mike for ducking Foreman, his style would be annihilated in a few rounds, just a bad matchup for Mike on paper.

who'd evander ever duck though, something else to take into consideration.

[Mike Tyson77]

True, earlier in the thread I was scolding someone else for comparing opponents from different eras, here I am doing the same thing. It's hard to not compare those opponents though, not only because of how far apart they would rank on an all time great scale, with Holyfield's opposition ranking closer to #1 with Tyson's ranking closer to #100, but because the eras are very close to each other, unlike Johnson and modern times, as stated earlier in the thread. so my bad for that, but it was too hard for me to not mention because I really consider the guys Holy fought miles and miles above what Mike fought. I don't really even blame Mike for ducking Foreman, his style would be annihilated in a few rounds, just a bad matchup for Mike on paper.

who'd evander ever duck though, something else to take into consideration.

Why do you hate Mike Tyson?

[SquareCircle]

It isn't that I hate him, it's just that I have less respect for him especially comparing him to men like Holyfield. a guy who knocked out old women's teeth in his past, ducked big fights like Foreman, quits when he is about to lose, had his ass beat in his prime by douglas...etc...doesn't deserve the respect Holyfield does.

[BKM-]

It isn't that I hate him, it's just that I have less respect for him especially comparing him to men like Holyfield. a guy who knocked out old women's teeth in his past, ducked big fights like Foreman, quits when he is about to lose, had his ass beat in his prime by douglas...etc...doesn't deserve the respect Holyfield does.

You still aint man enough to respond to my post, hater

[K-DOGG]

True, earlier in the thread I was scolding someone else for comparing opponents from different eras, here I am doing the same thing. It's hard to not compare those opponents though, not only because of how far apart they would rank on an all time great scale, with Holyfield's opposition ranking closer to #1 with Tyson's ranking closer to #100, but because the eras are very close to each other, unlike Johnson and modern times, as stated earlier in the thread. so my bad for that, but it was too hard for me to not mention because I really consider the guys Holy fought miles and miles above what Mike fought. I don't really even blame Mike for ducking Foreman, his style would be annihilated in a few rounds, just a bad matchup for Mike on paper.

who'd evander ever duck though, something else to take into consideration.

Not arguing Evander's warrior spirit my man. He said no to no one. If you wanted to throw hands, he'd bite. He was a true champion, no doubt. But, to my knowledge, (with the exception of Foreman) Mike didn't duck anyone either in his first career. The Mike that reigned from 1986-1990 and fought through 1991 said no to no one either...though I have heard the Foreman story before....and it's probably true. But in career 1, Mike was a warrior himself, with a sense of history.

Mentally, he wasn't the same after he got out of prison, though. He was more about the money at that point. He ducked Lewis shamelessly in career # 2 and only signed to fight Holy because he looked more washed up than yesterday's laundry. Don I'm sure, thought Holyfield would be a low risk defense at that stage of his career.