Was Larry Holmes….”The Greatest”?

[Mike Tyson77]

No one could beat Jack Johnson or Mike Tyson in there prime. They where just too good and too motivated. Either one in there prime would defintly rules todays HW division. They are the best of the best. If you dont think so go tell that to Stanly Ketchels teeth or Michael Spinks(He's probly still laying in the ring.) Oh sorry, I forgot, Spinks threw that fight.

[Easy-E]

Okay. Who were Ali's toughest opponents? Liston, Patterson, Terrell, Frazier, Norton, Foreman, Lyle, Young, and Shavers...right?

Holmes: Norton, Berbick (future champ), Weaver (future champ), Shavers, Snipes, Cooney, Witherspoon (future 2 time champ), Smith (future champ), & Williams.


That's a pretty comparable list if you ask me.

Your joking, right?
Those arnt the least bit comparable, Ali blows Holme's resume out of the water, no question.

[Easy-E]

No one could beat Jack Johnson or Mike Tyson in there prime. They where just too good and too motivated. Either one in there prime would defintly rules todays HW division. They are the best of the best. If you dont think so go tell that to Stanly Ketchels teeth or Michael Spinks(He's probly still laying in the ring.) Oh sorry, I forgot, Spinks threw that fight.

How many Jack Johnson fights have you seen?

[Easy-E]

No one could beat Jack Johnson or Mike Tyson in there prime. They where just too good and too motivated. Either one in there prime would defintly rules todays HW division. They are the best of the best. If you dont think so go tell that to Stanly Ketchels teeth or Michael Spinks(He's probly still laying in the ring.) Oh sorry, I forgot, Spinks threw that fight.

so if no one could beat jack johnson in his prime, and no one could beat tyson in his prime...who wins the fight between these two in their primes?

No one could touch Muhammad Ali in his prime.

[Mike Tyson77]

so if no one could beat jack johnson in his prime, and no one could beat tyson in his prime...who wins the fight between these two in their primes?

No one could touch Muhammad Ali in his prime.

It would be a draw.


As for Ali, he was damn hard to hit in his prime. Maby Louis or someone could get a SD or MD against Ali.

[K-DOGG]

Your joking, right?
Those arnt the least bit comparable, Ali blows Holme's resume out of the water, no question.

Bro, I promise you, Larry Holmes defenses were as impressive as Ali's...the names are very comparable; but legend over time has embelished the 1970's to be greater than any other era...and that may be true; but those men weren't untouchable. The reason the Holmes era isn't as respected is because of two different factors: 1. Many of those very talented fighters overindulged in food and drugs and came off as a fat, lazy bunch. 2. The Alpha-belt situation which diluded the division in the public's eyes compared to the Ali era. If you want to add a third factor....it would be that it followed such a great era and therefore will never be looked at as good....kind of like Holmes in comparison to Ali.

The Tim Witherspoon that fought Holmes could have beaten the Liston that fought Clay. Gerry Cooney could have beaten Frazier and Norton in his prime. The Earnie Shavers who fought Holmes could have beaten Norton and Frazier as well. Mike Weaver was crude; but had a chance against anybody with that left hook of his. And Holmes could have beaten Frazier and Foreman. Could Ron Lyle have beaten Witherspoon or Cooney or Weaver? Really? No one really knows; and I can see some of those 1980's forgotten heavyies kicking those 70's legends asses. This is boxing where it boils down to hombre a hombre.

It's all about persective. The heavyweights of the 1970's are remembered as great because of the wars they waged with one another...and because of Ali's stardust.

[hollister]

If you dont think so go tell that to Stanly Ketchels teeth

If you've actually seen that film, watch it again.
Johnson wipes his glove with the wrong hand, he never knocked
Stanley's teeth out. This is common knowledge to those that take the time or care enough to find out.

[Southpaw Stinger]

No one could beat Jack Johnson or Mike Tyson in there prime

You haven't seen many Jack Johnson fights have you? He has been blown out of all proportion because he was the first black Champion. He had a very padded record and fought many bums and losing a lot of fights too. He wasn't an unbeatable monster in his prime.

And Tyson would lose to Foreman - terrible style match up of swarmer vs slugger so much so that Tyson ducked an old Foreman in the early nineties.
Liston and Ali would also school Tyson in the fistic arts and I'm pretty sure that Holyfield had the right mind frame and skills to beat Tyson.

[Southpaw Stinger]

How would Frazier have done against Cooney or Shavers or Norton? Or how would Liston and Foreman have done against Holmes? We don't know.

I think Frazier would have done very well against Cooney, Shavers and Norton.
Put it this way, Shavers glass chin and poor stamina would prove his downfall against Frazier - the same goes for Cooney.
And Norton didn't fair well with big punchers so I think Frazier would crowd him and KO him.
I'm pretty sure both Liston and Foreman would beat Holmes as Liston had an even better jab than Holmes and with a longer reach. And Foreman is like a bigger stronger shavers with a better chin.

You're right, but just to be fair, Liston was about 40 the first time they fought, Wasn't he?

No Liston was 31/32 when he first fought Ali who was 22. And Ali was an undeveloped fighter then he looked like a lanky teenager where as Liston was a fully developed man.

[K-DOGG]

I think Frazier would have done very well against Cooney, Shavers and Norton.
Put it this way, Shavers glass chin and poor stamina would prove his downfall against Frazier - the same goes for Cooney.
And Norton didn't fair well with big punchers so I think Frazier would crowd him and KO him.
I'm pretty sure both Liston and Foreman would beat Holmes as Liston had an even better jab than Holmes and with a longer reach. And Foreman is like a bigger stronger shavers with a better chin.





No Liston was 31/32 when he first fought Ali who was 22. And Ali was an undeveloped fighter then he looked like a lanky teenager where as Liston was a fully developed man.

Foreman I can't see beating Holmes. Liston would have a better chance; but I dont' see it. And while I definetly can see your point with Frazier and the two proposed matches...I can also see Cooney doing to Frazier what Foreman did...same with Shavers.

Oh..and you are correct on Liston's age. He was 31 officially when he fought Clay.