Is Deontay Wilder really a A-Level fighter? If so, why isn't Shawn Porter

[Sheldon312]

In your wisdom, may you enlighten everyone here on this disparity based on skills - not cooked up items from nowhere? I will be waiting on this...

Joshua has the better footwork, balance, hooks, uppercuts, combinations, parrying, blocking, jab is about equal(might give slight edge to wilder), better at cutting off the rung, better body puncher, better at fighting at a faster pace. Defense is about equal I would say.

Wilder on has the edge in stamina, athleticism, and power. Please, tell me if i'm wrong.

[Cutthroat]

Joshua has the better footwork, balance, hooks, uppercuts, combinations, parrying, blocking, jab is about equal(might give slight edge to wilder), better at cutting off the rung, better body puncher, better at fighting at a faster pace. Defense is about equal I would say.

Wilder on has the edge in stamina, athleticism, and power. Please, tell me if i'm wrong.

I agree with most of that but...

-AJ has the better combos, but Wilder the better 1-2.

-Wilder's body work and left is really an underrated part of his offense, he throws a mean left hook and has hurt plenty of guys to the body and head with it.

-Pace, it depends, Wilder really excels with aggressive fighters and does have superior stamina to AJ. AJ is very aggressive and does gas relatively fast. Wilder has shown he's capable of throwing upwards of 620 punches vs Stiverne with energy to spare. AJ has shown to slow down at around the 200 mark which is about 5 rounds in, after that he also starts getting hit more.

-Durability, I'd say this one is also key. Joshua has shown to be more vulnerable recently, he was stopped as an amateur and down HARD against Wlad. Wilder on the other hand hasn't been down in years, hasn't really been hurt either. That could wind up in AJ's favor though, I think AJ will be able to recover more effectively than Wilder would be able to.


Wilder has less skills but his overall skill in these few areas is A+, as good as you'll see from any HW.

AJ has more skills but they are mostly all balanced. When you match them together, it seems to me it's the skills Wilder are great at that target the areas AJ is weak in.

[sotgoda]

Joshua has the better footwork, balance, hooks, uppercuts, combinations, parrying, blocking, jab is about equal(might give slight edge to wilder), better at cutting off the rung, better body puncher, better at fighting at a faster pace. Defense is about equal I would say.

Wilder on has the edge in stamina, athleticism, and power. Please, tell me if i'm wrong.

On AJ, I agree with all you said except the following:

1. Footwork: AJ does not have the better footwork. He is more fundamentally compact but that's not all there is not footwork. Wilder is more agile and moves better in and out than AJ. Wilder also pivots much better than AJ. .

2. Blocking: I cannot agree here. Neither can I disagree. The reason I say this is that AJ is rarely ever defending because he is the offensive fighter. AJ's offense is his defense most times. Also, like Wilder, he has been caught with some clean shots as well. So, I am not sure we can say that.

3. Better at cutting ring: No, he is not. They are at worst equal. AJ has constantly had trouble cutting off the ring. Just take a look at his last fight for evidence.

4. Fighting at faster pace: How can you even say this? What is the proof that AJ is better at this? There is not enough sample size to show this.

Now, on Wilder:

1. Better jab - it is not close unless you want to be in denial. AJ rarely uses his jab to destroy an opponent because he is looking to setup his combinations. Wilder utilizes his a lot more and a lot better.

2. Right hand: Wilder has the better right hand - power, direction and accuracy. I am not saying AJ's is not good. If I will rate, it is 9.5 for Wilder and 9 for AJ. So, it is close although in power, Wilder has a lot more power.

3. Movement - Wilder (though clumsy) moves better than AJ. This is in multiple directions and Wilder pivots extremely well. This is probably his most underrated skill.

4. Fighting on the back foot - Wilder is the best right now amongst the heavyweight. AJ is terrible at fighting on the back foot. If you don't believe me, take a look at Takam, Wlad, etc. They all show this huge flaw he has. He almost seems clueless fighting on the back foot.

5. Punching while moving - AJ is average again at this. Wilder is better. AJ likes to corner people because he is trying to throw combinations. But combinations only matter when you have a stationary target or an oppoent who is hurt.

6. Speed - perhaps what makes punches more dangerous and effective. Speed kills. Wilder is faster than AJ. As is said, it is the punches that you don't see that hurts the most. Now, please note that I am not saying AJ is not fast. He is fast, but not as fast as Wilder. AJ, though, throws great and fast combinations.

I think you spoke about the rest, i.e., stamina (that's a beatdown there although it might not matter), power (I think we agree here), athleticism.

Now on the fighting on the front foot, I think I will give AJ a 9.5 and Wilder a 9. AJ is more aggressive and willing to take a shot to land a shot. Wilder seems more calculated before jumping in. AJ fights better in range 2 and delves into range 1 (up close). Wilder prefers to fight in range 3 but could transition almost immediately to 1 (skipping 2) or to 2.

Look bro, I know we are on different sides of the fence on this. My only ask is for them to fight. Somebody will win. I think Wilder, you think AJ. Let's see.

[Holystroke3]

Wilder is not an A level fighter, but his right hand is A+++ and that can make up for a lot of weaknesses

[Rustle Wilson]

There are no "A-Level" guys at Heavyweight. From top to bottom. Regardless of the recent excitement factor that everybody's enjoying in the division, the guys at Heavyweight today are not as skilled & talented or comparable in a p4p sense to most of the top fighters in the lower weight classes, and it's been that way for about 15 years now.

Sadly, Ortiz was the only guy in recent memory that had a "p4p" like skillset.

[sotgoda]

Wilder has less skills but his overall skill in these few areas is A+, as good as you'll see from any HW.

AJ has more skills but they are mostly all balanced. When you match them together, it seems to me it's the skills Wilder are great at that target the areas AJ is weak in.

Cutthroat, I will have to disagree with you here. AJ is fundamentally compact and throws like a boxer. Effectiveness, however, is not dependent on that. Areas of skills:

Physical: Wilder taller and longer reach, but both about equal. So, let's say equal
Speed and Athleticism: Wilder
Technique: AJ all day (fundamentally compact shots, holds hands up for the 1st few rounds until he tires, much better uppercut, better combinations, etc.)
Stamina: Wilder
Power: Wilder
Left hook - AJ
Left jab - Wilder
Right hand (hook and jab) - Wilder.
Front foot fighting - AJ marginally because he prefers 2 and 1. Wilder prefer 3 and 2, although comfortable in 1.
Back foot - Wilder.
Head movement - About equal. AJ better with up and down, Wilder with left and right.

So, why the statement of AJ having more skills? I am happy to be corrected.

[Sheldon312]

Cutthroat, I will have to disagree with you here. AJ is fundamentally compact and throws like a boxer. Effectiveness, however, is not dependent on that. Areas of skills:

Physical: Wilder taller and longer reach, but both about equal. So, let's say equal
Speed and Athleticism: Wilder
Technique: AJ all day (fundamentally compact shots, holds hands up for the 1st few rounds until he tires, much better uppercut, better combinations, etc.)
Stamina: Wilder
Power: Wilder
Left hook - AJ
Left jab - Wilder
Right hand (hook and jab) - Wilder.
Front foot fighting - AJ marginally because he prefers 2 and 1. Wilder prefer 3 and 2, although comfortable in 1.
Back foot - Wilder.
Head movement - About equal. AJ better with up and down, Wilder with left and right.

So, why the statement of AJ having more skills? I am happy to be corrected.

Wilder has a better straight right but Joshua has a better right hook. You also forgot to mention that Joshua is a better medium range and short range fighter(better at fighting in the pocket) Joshua is also better at parrying and blocking shots. To make it easier for you, on a scale from 1 to 10 Wilder is a 6 while Joshua is a 8 or 8.5. I don't see Joshua telegraphing punches and fighting wild. I do not know how you can say they are both equally skilled.

[Sheldon312]

There are no "A-Level" guys at Heavyweight. From top to bottom. Regardless of the recent excitement factor that everybody's enjoying in the division, the guys at Heavyweight today are not as skilled & talented or comparable in a p4p sense to most of the top fighters in the lower weight classes, and it's been that way for about 15 years now.

Sadly, Ortiz was the only guy in recent memory that had a "p4p" like skillset.

If GGG is a top 5 then Joshua and Fury should at least be up there.

[sotgoda]

Wilder has a better straight right but Joshua has a better right hook. You also forgot to mention that Joshua is a better medium range and short range fighter(better at fighting in the pocket) Joshua is also better at parrying and blocking shots. To make it easier for you, on a scale from 1 to 10 Wilder is a 6 while Joshua is a 8 or 8.5. I don't see Joshua telegraphing punches and fighting wild. I do not know how you can say they are both equally skilled.

Sheldon, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the right hook. Nothing about AJ's right hook says better than Wilder. His left hook - yes, but not right hook. On the medium and short range - I mentioned that in my front foot fighting. AJ is better at 2 than Wilder, but isn't better at 1 than Wilder. AJ stays between 2 and 1 and rarely at 3 - which is why he is almost useless at 3, with 1 being the closest to the opponent.

Wilder stays at 3 but is comfortable at 2 and 1, and transitions seamlessly into either 2 or 1. For AJ telegraphing punches, please watch the last fight against Takam, you can see where the right hand is going to and you could also see Takam see it from '1-mile' away to evade it. I cannot say AJ is better at parrying or blocking shot because his offense is his defense. He has never really had to show us his defense. The closest was against Wlad and even then he looked average on the backfoot and was not parrying or blocking well. AJ's up and down movement is good. Left and right movement is average at best.

[Sheldon312]

Sheldon, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the right hook. Nothing about AJ's right hook says better than Wilder. His left hook - yes, but not right hook. On the medium and short range - I mentioned that in my front foot fighting. AJ is better at 2 than Wilder, but isn't better at 1 than Wilder. AJ stays between 2 and 1 and rarely at 3 - which is why he is almost useless at 3, with 1 being the closest to the opponent.

Wilder stays at 3 but is comfortable at 2 and 1, and transitions seamlessly into either 2 or 1. For AJ telegraphing punches, please watch the last fight against Takam, you can see where the right hand is going to and you could also see Takam see it from '1-mile' away to evade it. I cannot say AJ is better at parrying or blocking shot because his offense is his defense. He has never really had to show us his defense. The closest was against Wlad and even then he looked average on the backfoot and was not parrying or blocking well. AJ's up and down movement is good. Left and right movement is average at best.

I agree that Wilder can fight off the backfoot better but that is due to his athleticism(which isn't his fault) But fighting off the back foot doesn't mean **** if you're fighting a guy that can provide prssure like Joshua(go back and Watch Thurman vs Porter) You see, Wilder has yet to fight anyone who can box from the outside, cut off the right, or has equal or close power compared to him. I'm not like you guys who just look at how a fighter dominates his opponent without taking into consideration the quality of opposition. If Wilder has beaten Ortiz and Povetkin I would probably say 50/50. Since he hasn't fought anyone even a tier below Joshua, I am not giving him the benefit of the doubt.