You Can't Be P4P #1 With Zero Elite Wins...

[Tom Cruise]

Loma beating Rigo would not be an Elite win.

Same as AJ beating Andre Ward at HW wouldnt be an elite win.

Rigo is not an elite 130lber, and that is the division they are fighting.

[koolkc107]

Loma beating Rigo would not be an Elite win.

Same as AJ beating Andre Ward at HW wouldnt be an elite win.

Rigo is not an elite 130lber, and that is the division they are fighting.

Good point.

I would tend to give the win some credit though since this is a showdown a long time coming with both guys calling for it regardless of the weight.

But I agree, it would mean much more if both guys were the same weight or if they had done a catchweight here.

[Combat Talk Radio]

There's a lot I could pick apart here- and even one or two things I could agree with.

But, if you think Wlad was a shell of himself against AJ or that Horn actually won his fight with Pac, we see things so differently that argument is surely not worth the effort.

I go by the record books. You go by your emotional reaction.

In the record books, Grabomir was fresh off a dominant loss when he fought Joshua - which means Joshua's win was on a guy people weren't confident could beat him. Still a notable win, but let's be real.

In the record books, Anthony Joshua beat a future HOFer in Clinchko. Period. I accept that.

In the record books, Manny was off TWO dominant wins when he fought The Hornet - which means the going in expectation was that Manny would walk through the dude. Manny had ONE notable round. People are giving too much credit to that round and the ref's threat. Beyond that, who was the walk forward aggressor in at LEAST 6 rounds? It wasn't Manny.

In the record books, Jeff "The Hornet" Horn beat a top 10 fighter, an ATG, a future Hall of Famer, in Manny Pacquiao. That's fact, it's history, it's done. No amount of emotional reaction changes it.

In the record books, Srisaket Sor Rungvisai beat a once-P4P fighter, likely a future HOF'er, in Roman 'Chocolatito' Gonzalez TWO times, once by decision, once by brutal KO. That's fact, it's history, it's done. No amount of emotional reaction changes it.


You must acknowledge all three of these if you want to throw around the word "elite" in terms of who they beat. They are the only three thus far that have qualified - no matter how you "felt" about two of the three wins.

You're free to have your own P4P opinion, all I'm saying is, what's good for the goose bro. You can't discredit Horn's win because Manny was washed up, yet refuse to discredit Joshua's win because Grabomir was washed up. Either they both beat washed up fighters or neither did. That's all I'm saying.

[Pigeons]

Crawford 2 lineal titles, Golovkin 0.
Crawford 1 undisputed title, Golovkin 0.

Crawford > Golovkin

[koolkc107]

I go by the record books. You go by your emotional reaction.

In the record books, Grabomir was fresh off a dominant loss when he fought Joshua - which means Joshua's win was on a guy people weren't confident could beat him. Still a notable win, but let's be real.

In the record books, Anthony Joshua beat a future HOFer in Clinchko. Period. I accept that.

In the record books, Manny was off TWO dominant wins when he fought The Hornet - which means the going in expectation was that Manny would walk through the dude. Manny had ONE notable round. People are giving too much credit to that round and the ref's threat. Beyond that, who was the walk forward aggressor in at LEAST 6 rounds? It wasn't Manny.

In the record books, Jeff "The Hornet" Horn beat a top 10 fighter, an ATG, a future Hall of Famer, in Manny Pacquiao. That's fact, it's history, it's done. No amount of emotional reaction changes it.

In the record books, Srisaket Sor Rungvisai beat a once-P4P fighter, likely a future HOF'er, in Roman 'Chocolatito' Gonzalez TWO times, once by decision, once by brutal KO. That's fact, it's history, it's done. No amount of emotional reaction changes it.


You must acknowledge all three of these if you want to throw around the word "elite" in terms of who they beat. They are the only three thus far that have qualified - no matter how you "felt" about two of the three wins.

You're free to have your own P4P opinion, all I'm saying is, what's good for the goose bro. You can't discredit Horn's win because Manny was washed up, yet refuse to discredit Joshua's win because Grabomir was washed up. Either they both beat washed up fighters or neither did. That's all I'm saying.

I'm not the one being emotional here.

The fact that you think Horn actually deserved the decision in that fight, or that Manny was anything near the best version he ever was is all the indication someone would need to assess which of us is injecting personal sentiment with little relation to objectivity.

Situations count. It isn't only who you fight, but when you fight them, who they are when you fight them, and who you are when you win.

I discredit Horn's win because Manny was a lesser version of himself AND HORN LOST ANYWAY. True, Manny looked good in earlier fights, but only because Bradley was himself shopworn and Vargas a non-elite contender. Horn did not deserve the decision and loses anywhere on the planet that isn't Australia.

AJ's win gets full credit because WLAD looked better than he had in YEARS. This isn't emotion but fact and thank God there are plenty of folks who wrote enough about the fight such that this isn't even debatable.

As for Rungvisai, I reserve judgement til I see more.

Mike Tyson was the baddest man on the planet when Buster Douglas beat him. That didn't mean Buster became the baddest man on the planet. Turns out he had a good night is all. Nonito Donaire beat Vic Darchinyan and folks waited to see if it was a good night or if he was for real.

Let's see whether Srisaket is Buster or Nonito.