Comments Thread For: Heading into a Hectic Fall: BScene Pound-for-Pound Update

[Combat Talk Radio]

Thats a flaw in the Boxrec points system. A win over Manny will rack you up a ton of points.

That's not a flaw. It just means that subjective lists like the BS one are less credible. Let's be honest here.

There's no way you can put faith in a list that puts a guy who just LOST to a huge underdog after going the distance, above:

• Terence Crawford, UNDEFEATED
• Mikey Garcia, UNDEFEATED
• Gennady Golovkin, UNDEFEATED
• Canelo Alvarez who only ever lost to the best to ever do it and has soundly beat everyone else
• Keith Thurman who's UNDEFEATED and fresh off a decisive win against another UNDEFEATED threat in Danny Garci

Yet Manny's nowhere on the list for the same type of loss. Why? Makes no damn sense.


Then you got Mikey at #4 when's he only beaten one big name, and that was just recently. Over Alvarez who has beaten numerous big names over years.

Not even a notable mention for Jeff Horn who just beat an ATG in Manny, or Luis Ortiz?

That's the problem with this list. It's biased. People just love Choco's sorry ass.


Boxrec? I challenge anyone to tell me a name on this list that doesn't deserve to be listed IGNORING KNOCKOUT PERCENTAGE.

1 Saul Alvarez
Why? He's only ever lost to the best.

2 Andre Ward
I think he's overrated, but he's undefeated and just beat his most dangerous opponent twice, once by stoppage.

3 Terence Crawford
Undefeated, dominant wins, a true threat.

4 Vasyl Lomachenko
I think 4 is too high thanks to the # of fights and Salido, but other than that he deserves to be here. Dominant wins, a threat.

5 Gennady Golovkin
Undefeated, dominant wins, a threat.

6 Anthony Joshua
Undefeated, dominant wins, just beat the most dangerous heavyweight.

7 Shinsuke Yamanaka
Undefeated, he struggled against a guy coming off losses, but he's undefeated and a threat.

8 Jeff Horn
Just beat an ATG and arguably the second best to ever do it in Manny Pacquiao, clearly and and without bias. Tim Bradley ducked him. Tim M'Fn Bradley.

9 Miguel Berchelt
I'd swap him and Thurman but he's a dominant victor that deserves to be listed.

10 Keith Thurman
Undefeated, just beat another undefeated clearly and decisively. A threat.

[Shadoww702]

bru he ducked the purse bid to fight adonis...beat up a 50 year old who he couldnt ko, and beat a washed up pascal...history will not recieve kov well if he quits today....2 losses in a row..and he quit and was turning his back.

Let's just see is next fights. I agree he quits today He's not getting much love from the HOFame.

[Madison Boxing]

got to be one of the worst lists ive ever seen, genuinely. i could pick holes in almost all of it but if ward is supposedly pound for pound number 1 how can you drop kovalev entirely from the top 10 for losing to the supposedly best fighter on the planet in a fight that was competitive up the controversial ending? im not even gonna get started on crawford as number 3 and then mikey garcia shooting up to number 4 for beating adrien broner. youve got rigondeaux old arse on there for 1 good win 4 years ago, the only good win hes got, and hes somehow above thurman? what the hell is that about?

[just the facts]

got to be one of the worst lists ive ever seen, genuinely. i could pick holes in almost all of it but if ward is supposedly pound for pound number 1 how can you drop kovalev entirely from the top 10 for losing to the supposedly best fighter on the planet in a fight that was competitive up the controversial ending? im not even gonna get started on crawford as number 3 and then mikey garcia shooting up to number 4 for beating adrien broner. youve got rigondeaux old arse on there for 1 good win 4 years ago, the only good win hes got, and hes somehow above thurman? what the hell is that about?

Too many black fighters on it for your taste?

[aboutfkntime]

guys.....

we do this every month, but hey.....

" P4P " has nothing to do with resume

" ATG " is all about resume, and nothing else..... NOT P4P

P4P is based on ceteris paribus, if all things were equal

the guys who you are complaining about, Golovkin, Loma, and Mikey..... are ranked because of their skills/ability/form

resume adds that proven factor, sure..... so most "credible" observers factor in resume..... but you absolutely can include a rookie if you know your stuff..... few will, most will run it down the middle

e.g.

what had changed for Floyd Mayweather when he was first ranked P4P #1?..... how had he improved on 12 months earlier?.....

answer: nothing, he had not improved, nothing had changed..... he was the exact same fighter he was 12 months earlier

the folks who had him on their list 12 months earlier, knew their ****, and were smart..... everyone else corrected their list using the benefit of hindsight

and yes, an update is a correction...... you are correcting your mistake, because the guy is the exact same fighter...... you were simply unaware of that fact

luckily, Cliff Rold is aware of that fact

P4P is NOT based on what those guys did yesterday..... because that will not help them win a fight tomorrow, will it?..... P4P is who you think would win TODAY, IF all things (weight) were equal..... not yesterday.....

everyone who disagree's with me, consider this.....
* Pacquiao has the best active resume', but should he be #1?
* Gennady Golovkin hasn't done ****, so why is he on the list?

[aboutfkntime]

got to be one of the worst lists ive ever seen, genuinely. i could pick holes in almost all of it but if ward is supposedly pound for pound number 1 how can you drop kovalev entirely from the top 10 for losing to the supposedly best fighter on the planet in a fight that was competitive up the controversial ending? im not even gonna get started on crawford as number 3 and then mikey garcia shooting up to number 4 for beating adrien broner. youve got rigondeaux old arse on there for 1 good win 4 years ago, the only good win hes got, and hes somehow above thurman? what the hell is that about?

this is exactly what I am talking about.....

FACT: Rigo is CLEARLY a better fighter than Thurman

Cliff Rold can see that, but you cannot

have a think about that for a sec

if you disagree, explain to me how Thurman is a better fighter than Rigo?

according to ceteris paribus, if all things (weight) were equal..... Rigo embarrases Thurman

[Hype job]

Biased against white fighters.

[Madison Boxing]

this is exactly what I am talking about.....

FACT: Rigo is CLEARLY a better fighter than Thurman

Cliff Rold can see that, but you cannot

have a think about that for a sec

if you disagree, explain to me how Thurman is a better fighter than Rigo?

according to ceteris paribus, if all things (weight) were equal..... Rigo embarrases Thurman

how do we know hes that good when hes not been in with a live body in 4 years? And that was the narrowest of wins against donaire. Thurmans beat porter and garcia in the last couple of years, whos rigo beat in that time? You cant live off one nights good work forever. Walters did a far better job on donaire than rigo did too, maybe we should throw him on there too cause you all seem to rate beating donaire so highly.

[Madison Boxing]

guys.....

we do this every month, but hey.....

" P4P " has nothing to do with resume

" ATG " is all about resume, and nothing else..... NOT P4P

P4P is based on ceteris paribus, if all things were equal

the guys who you are complaining about, Golovkin, Loma, and Mikey..... are ranked because of their skills/ability/form

resume adds that proven factor, sure..... so most "credible" observers factor in resume..... but you absolutely can include a rookie if you know your stuff..... few will, most will run it down the middle

e.g.

what had changed for Floyd Mayweather when he was first ranked P4P #1?..... how had he improved on 12 months earlier?.....

answer: nothing, he had not improved, nothing had changed..... he was the exact same fighter he was 12 months earlier

the folks who had him on their list 12 months earlier, knew their ****, and were smart..... everyone else corrected their list using the benefit of hindsight

and yes, an update is a correction...... you are correcting your mistake, because the guy is the exact same fighter...... you were simply unaware of that fact

luckily, Cliff Rold is aware of that fact

P4P is NOT based on what those guys did yesterday..... because that will not help them win a fight tomorrow, will it?..... P4P is who you think would win TODAY, IF all things (weight) were equal..... not yesterday.....

everyone who disagree's with me, consider this.....
* Pacquiao has the best active resume', but should he be #1?
* Gennady Golovkin hasn't done ****, so why is he on the list?

its a balance of resume and skills. you cant assess skills fully if they arent in with quality opposition, how is that so hard to understand? Youre one of the biggest ggg critics and now youre ****ing the drum that its all about the eye test and you can put people on the list before theyve beaten a world level fighter? make your mind up man. you'd have probs thrown broner in p4p top 5 after he beat demarco.

[-DSG-]

1.Ward
2.Golovkin
3.Crawford
4.Mikey
5.Rigo
6.Thurman
7.LSC
8.Chocolatito
9.Loma
10.Canelo