Comments Thread For: Heading into a Hectic Fall: BScene Pound-for-Pound Update

[1hourRun]

good point about Krusher

he's still on my list, because my list is not just based on resume

Pac has the best resume, and the most experience..... but is no longer a top P4P fighter..... resume/experience is not relevant, because other issues such as age/slippage are more predominant factors..... but that also works the other way, which is why I said that fights are not won on paper

Spence's slim resume and inexperience did not help Kell Brook

the guys who think that Golovkin is a P4P fighter because he passes the eye-test..... but need Lomachenko to "prove himself"..... will pat themselves on the back when Loma does, and may adjust their lists accordingly..... but in truth they needed someone to draw them a fkn roadmap..... and when they updated their P4P list, they were just correcting their earlier mistakes

Great post man. I agreed with most, the GGG Chenko comparison threw me off a bit because I thought most GGG fans were on the Lomachenko bandwagon, maybe I need to pay more attention.

I'll give you something to think about, resume and experience weighs heavily on my criteria : I'll use the man you just spoke of ( Vasyl Lomachenko ) to me its evident that the 2017 version of Lomachenko is far better than the 2014 version as he has gained experience against good opponents ; and isn't it ironic that a man who would never pass the ''Eye-test'' handed him his first L? what was the deciding factor? experience, Siri's resume despite being battle worn and aging enable him to overcome the advantages that Vasyl's age and skill granted him. In closing I do factor in the apparent boxing fundamentals -- it would be ****** to dismiss the skills and abilities of a fighter so I try to have a balance agenda when ranking elite boxers.

[Gunpowdergreg]

This is my personal P4P list.

Lomachenko
Ward
Crawford
GGG
Chocolito Gonzalez
Canelo Alvarez
Thurman
Rigondeaux
M. Garcia
Kovalez

I know there's a lot of disagreement about Lomo. Lomo wasn't on my list a year ago, as an "old timer" I couldn't see ranking someone with only 8 bouts but after really watching him this past year I now see him as #1. He is the best boxer after only 10 bouts since Leonard at the same point in their careers. And when I look at the level of competition and his accomplishments in his first 10 no one has fought at level, he certainly didn't get the normal type of start up bouts.

Ward, well I am feeling Boxing PC to put him at 2, hell he has a great career and certainly begged and solicited for it enough. Had he have beaten Kolavez clean and convincingly he would be my #1; Referee Weeks screwed the pooch for Ward and Kolavez on this one.

Had a harder time on who to drop off, ended up dropping Pac out of the Top 10 for the first time in many years, the Horn fight aside, I just don't see him as P4P caliber at this point. Kovalez stays in because I don't see his skills falling off as much and 2 questionable fights with Ward didn't diminish him enough to drop him.

As always P4P rankings are only opinions and a snapshot in time.

[aboutfkntime]

Great post man. I agreed with most, the GGG Chenko comparison threw me off a bit because I thought most GGG fans were on the Lomachenko bandwagon, maybe I need to pay more attention.

I'll give you something to think about, resume and experience weighs heavily on my criteria : I'll use the man you just spoke of ( Vasyl Lomachenko ) to me its evident that the 2017 version of Lomachenko is far better than the 2014 version as he has gained experience against good opponents ; and isn't it ironic that a man who would never pass the ''Eye-test'' handed him his first L? what was the deciding factor? experience, Siri's resume despite being battle worn and aging enable him to overcome the advantages that Vasyl's age and skill granted him. In closing I do factor in the apparent boxing fundamentals -- it would be ****** to dismiss the skills and abilities of a fighter so I try to have a balance agenda when ranking elite boxers.

I don't totally disagree with you, but would prefer not using Loma as an example

Loma is an exception

Arum broke a given..... you do not throw a novice in with a tricky seasoned vet who is right on top of his game

you just don't

I prefer that any examples require the fighter to have at least some experience..... because nobody said that experience doesn't matter

I said that you do not need to have an extensive resume, which is markedly different than having only 1 previous fight

not a great example imho

on Loma.....

1) even back then, I could tell that Loma was special

2) Loma could have beaten BETTER fighters at that point than Siri..... that was a horrible matchup for a rookie..... Siri was always going to be a hard 12-round fight.... then factor in the additional weight

3) that fight was close, if Loma had gotten the nod, it would not be mentioned

the thing is, people take words to the umpteenth degree..... if a guy has achieved within boxing, to the point where he is being discussed as a possible P4P entrant..... then he must have done something to warrant that attention.....

Golovkin is - correctly - ranked P4P based on the eye test, and not much more..... it doesn't make sense if that situation does not also apply to others

there is too much crossover with modern P4P lists and ATG

it comes down to criteria

an ATG list will not change, but a P4P list will..... often

P4P is about style/skills/form, who would win if all things were equal..... ATG (resume) is a different discussion for a different day

also..... Rigo, who has done very little recently, is in the exact same position as the P4P #1 fighter Andre Ward was 12 months ago.....

insinuating/assuming that a fighter can no longer function at the top level, is largely rubbish..... there is nothing to indicate that Rigo has slipped, but I do agree that some have/will surpassed him

[aboutfkntime]

This is my personal P4P list.

Lomachenko
Ward
Crawford
GGG
Chocolito Gonzalez
Canelo Alvarez
Thurman
Rigondeaux
M. Garcia
Kovalez

I know there's a lot of disagreement about Lomo. Lomo wasn't on my list a year ago, as an "old timer" I couldn't see ranking someone with only 8 bouts but after really watching him this past year I now see him as #1. He is the best boxer after only 10 bouts since Leonard at the same point in their careers. And when I look at the level of competition and his accomplishments in his first 10 no one has fought at level, he certainly didn't get the normal type of start up bouts.

Ward, well I am feeling Boxing PC to put him at 2, hell he has a great career and certainly begged and solicited for it enough. Had he have beaten Kolavez clean and convincingly he would be my #1; Referee Weeks screwed the pooch for Ward and Kolavez on this one.

Had a harder time on who to drop off, ended up dropping Pac out of the Top 10 for the first time in many years, the Horn fight aside, I just don't see him as P4P caliber at this point. Kovalez stays in because I don't see his skills falling off as much and 2 questionable fights with Ward didn't diminish him enough to drop him.

As always P4P rankings are only opinions and a snapshot in time.

I totally agree..... " a snapshot in time " is a good quote

P4P is horribly over-rated and should never be taken seriously

there are only 1 or 2 things within boxing that are more over-rated than P4P..... P4P fighters lose to guys who are not ranked all the time

it's nonsense really

[aboutfkntime]

it comes down to qualifying criteria.....

FACT: a P4P list..... is opinion, nothing more

a P4P list without qualifying criteria..... is rubbish

that is not much more than a " fave " list

how come nobody understood the example in the post below?

back when 2013..... when Golovkin was largely unknown, and had done nothing..... and Sergio Martinez was the middleweight kingpin.....

..... what made you all sooooo sure that Golovkin could beat him?

Martinez had that paper, and that cred..... Golovkin had nothing

so..... why ?

come on, I am sure you get my point

you guys who rank Golovkin P4P, but think that Loma needs to prove himself..... have never made a P4P list in your lives

you have made a " fave " list..... and good for you

[Redd Foxx]

Golovkin really got shafted here. No way around it. Otherwise, I think its a very sharp list. Golovkin should be pulling 3rd though.

[My Low Place]

To be fair one of those losses to Juan Carlos Payano was a technical decision as the fight was stopped due to a cut, then 'Chemito' had a close fight with Yamanaka in their first encounter resulting in a SD L. During this time (2014-2016) Anselmo was rated top five.

he was losing to payano...and lets be honest payano is a b levl fgither...hell just about all of 118 is B level...that's why u cant go ranking these guys when other divisions are deepther and more accomplished

[My Low Place]

Let's just see is next fights. I agree he quits today He's not getting much love from the HOFame.

sullivan barrera seems to be the opponent...barrera is a B level fighter through and through..kov could easily lose if it wasnt for his power

[My Low Place]

You are a bit harsh on Chemito Moreno, find me a fighter in these divisions you refer to that have been on experts P4P list and ranked top five since 2008, its a shame you dismiss this man like hes inferior I suspect you do not keep up with the lighterweights :

Yes some of these divisions you speak of do not have contenders coming off one or two questionable losses ( as I already explained in Chemitos case ) but we are not ranking division here and to be objective when you have the body of work as Chemito you cant really compare the resume of these men you refer to in other weight classes or their accomplishments to Anselmos.

In addition you will find that a lot of these contenders in the top five are generally new to the sport...its easy to keep that 0 on your record at this point but you can also find seasoned vets in the top five with a couple losses in each division.

i was the man get ktfo in the rematch bc he kept his hands down right by his chest with apuncher in his face...that's all i need to know..he got ko'd again right after...he's a B level fighter..slick at times but not slick enough to do it through 12 rounds and win vs the so called best

abner mares easily beat him...do u see mares just sitting in the top 3 in any division? nope....there u have it

[Metho_4u]

People slate Golovkin for his resume but its at least equal to Crawford's. Let's take their top 5 best

GGG: Jacobs, Lemeiux, Murray, Stevens, Brook

TC: Gamboa, Postol, Beltran, Burns, Diaz

Who's the better talent? If you say golovkin...you're an idiot