Floyd dismantled Marquez after a two year lay off... Pacquiao got knocked out

[Thraxox]

Marquez didn't make any excuses so why are you doing it for him? He moved up in weight, so what? Roberto Duran and Shane Mosley did the exact same thing and beat ATG's when they did it so it's no excuse. Yeah Floyd is a bit bigger but he's fought guys 20lbs heavier and dominated them. Plus Pacquiao is the same size as Marquez, in fact Marquez is bigger than him. Also Pacquiao jumped up 2 weight classes against De La Hoya. So what? It makes no difference and Floyd beat him with finesse not power.

The fight would look exactly the same at 130-135 as it did at 147.

[JK1700]

Yes, it's amazing what bringing one of the world's foremost drug cheats can do for you. There's a reason why he's ****-scared of a rematch where he'd be blood-tested.

Hey now, he was only evening the playing field to get a fair fight

[HarvardBlue]

Had Mayweather fought Marquez at 135 and beat him it would be miles and miles better than the one he fought at 144. It is the context of the fight on how resume's are created: Without asterisks and set backs that degrades a fighter.

Marquez's best weight was at 130-135, and Floyd fought him at 144, so the win degrades, because the physical aspects of gaining weight, even though in the end he might only do better but still the outcome remains on Floyd winning, it doesn't matter because Marquez was compromised as an opponent because of the weight.

You'll see that in the Cotto fight, the Canelo fight, the Marquez fight.

But still, regardless of catchweights, Pacquiao and May are still in my top 13. We are just looking in too much of their resume because they are in the modern era where information becomes more available to the public. Past greats did it to but they were fortunate enough it was at the time where people dont have the information to dissect their careers as specific as we do to Pac and May.

Since you're putting an asterisk on this win, does it matter that Mayweather was coming off a 2 year layoff? Is there an asterisk on Pacquiao's win over Cotto. How about Ward's win over Smith?

I'm just trying to understand the "asterisk" and how and when it's used.

[LADIV]

So your argument is that Marquez was fighting at the wrong weight?

But he KO'd Pacquiao at that weight

Weight doesn't change skills. Floyd dominates him at any weight.

dinamita was fighting at the wrong weight for maywheather
He had never fought higher than 135
Prior to his fight with floyd. He fought floyd in 2009 and weighed in at 144 the other 2 times he weighed more than 140 was in 2011 for his 3rd fight with pacquiao he weighed in at 142 and in 2012 he weighed in at 143 for his 4th fight with pacquiao..he knocked out pacquiao at 143 almost 4 years later after he fought floyd ...with that said YDKSAB

[Thraxox]

Since you're putting an asterisk on this win, does it matter that Mayweather was coming off a 2 year layoff? Is there an asterisk on Pacquiao's win over Cotto. How about Ward's win over Smith?

I'm just trying to understand the "asterisk" and how and when it's used.

I don't know what to say about "askterisk" regarding lay offs. Mostly because it wasn't applied to Ali when Ali was laid off for 2 years, and when Joe Frazier defeated Ali despite Ali was ring rusted for 2 years just half a year ago it was proclaimed as the greatest win of any boxer in the last 30 years since Ali was still at his prime there and was at his best weight.

I don't know to be honest.

Modern fighters doesn't have the luxury of secrecy compared to the fighters of the older generation.

[Santa_]

Didn't Marquez only have one fight at 135 before jumping up 2 divisions and getting cheated on the scales?

Pretty sure he was a career 126/130 pounder before that.

[JK1700]

Had Mayweather fought Marquez at 135 and beat him it would be miles and miles better than the one he fought at 144. It is the context of the fight on how resume's are created: Without asterisks and set backs that degrades a fighter.

Marquez's best weight was at 130-135, and Floyd fought him at 144, so the win degrades, because the physical aspects of gaining weight, even though in the end he might only do better but still the outcome remains on Floyd winning, it doesn't matter because Marquez was compromised as an opponent because of the weight.

You'll see that in the Cotto fight, the Canelo fight, the Marquez fight.

But still, regardless of catchweights, Pacquiao and May are still in my top 13. We are just looking in too much of their resume because they are in the modern era where information becomes more available to the public. Past greats did it to but they were fortunate enough it was at the time where people dont have the information to dissect their careers as specific as we do to Pac and May.

What you're still failing to understand is that Mayweather beat Marquez with finesse, not power, so the weight really doesn't matter. Doesn't matter how big you are or your opponent is, if you can't hit them. If they hit you and you can't hit them you're gonna lose badly no matter the weight class. Marquez looked bad at the weight because he was fighting Floyd, when he fought Pacquiao at 147 he looked better because Pacquiao is an easier fight and he can actually hit him.

If you don't credit that win because of the weight, you can't count Manny's fights against Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Margarito or Morales because all these guys were either weight drained and/or coming off fights where they got smashed. Ok Marquez had to go up in weight but at that point he was looking better than he had ever looked. He had just beat Pacquiao in the rematch then KO'd Casamayor and won the Lightweight titles in the FOTY. Some people actually thought it was a riskier fight than Pacquiao, because they thought Marquez beat him.

[Thraxox]

What you're still failing to understand is that Mayweather beat Marquez with finesse, not power, so the weight really doesn't matter. Doesn't matter how big you are or your opponent is, if you can't hit them. If they hit you and you can't hit them you're gonna lose badly no matter the weight class. Marquez looked bad at the weight because he was fighting Floyd, when he fought Pacquiao at 147 he looked better because Pacquiao is an easier fight and he can actually hit him.

If you don't credit that win because of the weight, you can't count Manny's fights against Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Margarito or Morales because all these guys were either weight drained and/or coming off fights where they got smashed. Ok Marquez had to go up in weight but at that point he was looking better than he had ever looked. He had just beat Pacquiao in the rematch then KO'd Casamayor and won the Lightweight titles in the FOTY. Some people actually thought it was a riskier fight than Pacquiao, because they thought Marquez beat him.

You really DKSAB do you?

[HarvardBlue]

I don't know what to say about "askterisk" regarding lay offs. Mostly because it wasn't applied to Ali when Ali was laid off for 2 years, and when Joe Frazier defeated Ali despite Ali was ring rusted for 2 years just half a year ago it was proclaimed as the greatest win of any boxer in the last 30 years since Ali was still at his prime there and was at his best weight.

I don't know to be honest.

Modern fighters doesn't have the luxury of secrecy compared to the fighters of the older generation.

The reason I mentioned the lay off is defeating a top 10 P4P opponent after not fighting for 2 years is more commendable than the fact that Marquez came up 2 weight classes to fight Mayweather. Especially since Marquez had an even bigger success at a higher weight class. If Marquez went back down to his natural weight then the argument would be more valid.

I'm glad you brought up Ali/Foreman. Would Mayweather have been given a pass if he lost to Marquez because of the lay off?

[JK1700]

dinamita was fighting at the wrong weight for maywheather
He had never fought higher than 135
Prior to his fight with floyd. He fought floyd in 2009 and weighed in at 144 the other 2 times he weighed more than 140 was in 2011 for his 3rd fight with pacquiao he weighed in at 142 and in 2012 he weighed in at 143 for his 4th fight with pacquiao..he knocked out pacquiao at 143 almost 4 years later after he fought floyd ...with that said YDKSAB

I'm tired of this being used as an excuse. Duran moved up and beat SRL, Mosley moved up and beat De La Hoya. It's not a big deal. Marquez started at 125 Floyd started at 130. He looked bad because of who he was fighting. He fought Pacquiao at the same "bad weight" 3 years later and knocked him out. Gotta give Floyd credit for it. If you don't you're just a hater. It's really as simple as that.