Is there a way to remove promoters from the sport?

[OnePunch]

Couldn't one gain the rep of putting on competitive fights that garners an audience on that merit & be profitable as an enterprise at that starting point. You'd take the same early L money-wise as you attempted to gain that rep, but it sounds like promoters are doing that already with the 20 fight guys you talk about. And you'd gain a longer lasting popularity as a promotion than any one fighter could give you cuz that guys "life" in the sport is shorter & less consistent than that of a promoter.

.

we did that to a certain extent. Our shows had a great reputation for being well matched and competitive. And thats probably why I was only losing 2 or 3 grand a show, instead of 15 or 20 lol. But there are limits to what you can do at the club level. And most managers or other promoters are not going to put their guy on your show unless they are fighting a dummy. They might let you put their guy in 70-30 type of fight, but no way they are going to put him in with a killer. So you will never get those "premium" type matchups unless you have both guys under contract, and then its against your financial interests to do it.

bottom line is there is only a certain number of people out there who appreciate good boxing content, regardless of who is fighting. The vast majority want a name, a face, and a story to follow. And there are very few guys like say a Gatti, who can bounce back from multiple losses and still sell out the boardwalk. He was a special kind of fighter.

And boxing is so fragmented. 4 sanctioning bodies, all doing there own thing. The ABC is spineless, and usually defers everything to the State commissions, who many times are incompetent or corrupt. No real global centralization like in other sports. In Japan Mr. Honda is doing his thing, Eddie Hearn in the UK is doing his, Top Rank, GBP, and PBC in the States, all doing whatever they feel like doing. Its a mess. And believe me, I've spent countless hours trying to think of a better way the sport could be run. I got nothing......lol

[Finito2K]

you can have amateur boxing. You can spar. That's boxing.

But professional boxing without the people who facilitate the elements that make it professional? No


Ts, i'm curious, what do you think a promotor does? And what about a fighter?

nailed it!

[HAMMER77777]

Boxing's biggest problem is its obsession with someone remaining undefeated. The instant a fighter loses, they are "exposed", or a "hype job", etc etc. Part of that problem is in that fighters only fight 2-3 times a year, some even only once. That isnt enough to undo a loss. Federer might be the best tennis player of all time, and his record is like 1080-240 or something like that. A 75% win-loss ration in boxing has people calling that fighter a "gatekeeper" or "journeyman". But tennis players might play 40, 50, or even 60 times a year, .
Boxing is just structurally different than most other sports. Tournaments are difficult, because of injuries. 1 small cut and a fighter is out of the tournament. Unless that tournament takes a year or so like the Super 6, and then most people lose interest.

Its a very difficult problem boxing has. I dont know the solution.

I don't expect them to Fight as often as tennis players play (obviously, different sport).

But you are correct, that Roger Federer has many losses and is still arguably the best player (same deal with Serena Williams). We need to stop obsessing about perfect records in Boxing. Even Michael Jordan's teams lost SOME games.

Maybe we can have 1-Month long tournaments? There just has to be a better way.

[Sweet Jones]

No disrespect taken.

I am "snarky" about what Haymon is doing because I genuinely believe what he is doing will do lasting damage to a sport that I love. He has devalued boxing content to the point that almost every network has zero interest in actually purchasing content. He killed FNF, yet put nothing in its place. He skirts the Ali Act which was supposed to really delineate the promoter / manager roles. And he overpaid fighters with borrowed money to the point that meaningful fights are next to impossible to get made, due to the finances. So yes, I'm quite critical of him. Haymon is great for the 20 or 30 fighters who are making ****** money. For everyone else, ehhhh, not so much.

Yes, "boxing" as a whole is indeed "sick", and needs help. But Haymon is a situation of the cure being worse than the disease.

Fair enough, but I think this is where many would disagree with you.

IMO, Boxing has untreated Stage III cancer (the promoter/network controlled business model), and Haymon is offering chemo. It(PBC) may not work, it may kill 'innocent' cells (smaller promoters) and it may even accelerate the demise. But if that cancer is left untreated, DEATH (become an increasingly untelevised and unprofitable niche sport) is inevitable. And so far, the 'patient' (boxing) has shown ZERO desire nor ability to do anything about its condition without radical, outside influence.

[HAMMER77777]

boxing needs to adopt the ufc strategy. All fighters under one umbrella and organization. each weight class undergo a tournament until there's one true champ per weight class. If you don't want to fight you go to the back of the line.

exactly this^!

[New England]

exactly this^!

guys would be used up in 2 years without making a ton of money. nobody would even box any more.

[Eff Pandas]

we did that to a certain extent. Our shows had a great reputation for being well matched and competitive. And thats probably why I was only losing 2 or 3 grand a show, instead of 15 or 20 lol. But there are limits to what you can do at the club level. And most managers or other promoters are not going to put their guy on your show unless they are fighting a dummy. They might let you put their guy in 70-30 type of fight, but no way they are going to put him in with a killer. So you will never get those "premium" type matchups unless you have both guys under contract, and then its against your financial interests to do it.

bottom line is there is only a certain number of people out there who appreciate good boxing content, regardless of who is fighting. The vast majority want a name, a face, and a story to follow. And there are very few guys like say a Gatti, who can bounce back from multiple losses and still sell out the boardwalk. He was a special kind of fighter.

Idk about that. I think fighting is one of those basic core sports people will be come to, but you can't have a whole red corner of whatever & 0 guys fighting a blue corner of 50% or less win record type guys which is more or less what a club show looks like. And most name brand promoters have a card full of "setup fights", as I like to call them, where a legit or fringe contender & prospects are probably 80% or better to win with one, maybe two if you're lucky, 50/50 to 70/30 type main fight. What I just described is like 95%+ of boxing shows scheduled in the US I'd bet.

And you bring up Haymon in your previous post about f#cking up the money in boxing by overpaying guys, but if you are unable to make a profit at the club show level when you were promoting & saying others don't either isn't that suggesting that somewhere things aren't adding up for those specific events? I mean the purpose of any event should be profiting on said event in my eyes not on getting to the point of building up one of your guys to the elite fighter level to cash out on basically.

And boxing is so fragmented. 4 sanctioning bodies, all doing there own thing. The ABC is spineless, and usually defers everything to the State commissions, who many times are incompetent or corrupt. No real global centralization like in other sports. In Japan Mr. Honda is doing his thing, Eddie Hearn in the UK is doing his, Top Rank, GBP, and PBC in the States, all doing whatever they feel like doing. Its a mess. And believe me, I've spent countless hours trying to think of a better way the sport could be run. I got nothing......lol

No doubt on that. The promotional end is hardly the only problem with boxing.

And call me crazy, but isn't this some basic sh^t to fix? You create an elite boxing league & open a bank account for all the checks you're gonna be cashing.

Granted the concept is the easy part, the practice of getting to that point is the problem. But in theory couldn't it be as simple as say the top 5 or 6 promoters coming together in key regions & having free range to make all the best fights among all their fighters & splitting up the profits?

I mean basically that what a promotion does now its just a smaller universe of fighters, with less power & more dictatorship running the entity.

Surely if PBC promoters, GBP, TR & Main Events & maybe one or two other promoters I'm forgetting come together to create a new entity you got the US market on lock & can make virtually any fight with outside parties due to the strength of these high caliber shows that would be an event every time out.

[HAMMER77777]

guys would be used up in 2 years without making a ton of money. nobody would even box any more.

But why? In any other sport, the best play the best. Even in physical sports like NFL.

We can make the tournaments over 1-2 Years. But at the end, the best Fight the best at every single weight class from 105, all the way up to HW.

[Deevel916]

guys would be used up in 2 years without making a ton of money. nobody would even box any more.

As it stands, guys are only fighting 1 or 2 times a year anyway.

Most fighters if asked would prefer to be more active.

[OnePunch]

Fair enough, but I think this is where many would disagree with you.

IMO, Boxing has untreated Stage III cancer (the promoter/network controlled business model), and Haymon is offering chemo. It(PBC) may not work, it may kill 'innocent' cells (smaller promoters) and it may even accelerate the demise. But if that cancer is left untreated, DEATH (become an increasingly untelevised and unprofitable niche sport) is inevitable. And so far, the 'patient' (boxing) has shown ZERO desire nor ability to do anything about its condition without radical, outside influence.

You have a valid opinion. I just tend to think of Haymon more as means of assisted suicide rather than a possible cure lol