Is there a way to remove promoters from the sport?

[OnePunch]

Promoters sell tickets and use that money to pay the fighters. The fighters fight.

Except that apparently boxers have to sell tickets too, sometimes. And if another fighter is with a rival promoter they can't fight him. And even if both fighters have the same promoter sometimes they still can't fight (i.e. Crawford-Pacquiao.)

I'm just questioning the whole paradigm. Might there be a way to throw this whole system in the toilet and start over? Or is this simply the best way to do things and that's all there is to it?

There might be. The problem is that nobody seems to have come up with one.

The problem with "boxing" economics is that the first 1/2 to 3/4 of most fighters careers is a financial loser for whatever entity is bankrolling it. I've told people this for years, and hardly anyone believes it. But the GBP vs. Haymon lawsuit exposed documents that showed that out of GBP entire roster, they only were turning a profit on Canelo's fights. Every other fighter was a financial loser at the moment. And thats the biggest obstacle to overcome. If a promoter does not get a financial stake in a fighters possible future financial paydays, there is no incentive for them to fund the fighters early financial losses.

Find a way to pay for every fighter's first 20 fights, and you can eliminate promoters. Or maybe go back to the way things were decades ago where "managers" ate the costs of fighter development, and promoters simply promoted fights.

[Eff Pandas]

if you take away a promoters chance to profit, you also take away his incentive to fund the development of 98% of the fighters out there. Sure, Olympians and blue-chip prospects will be ok, but most fighters need the financial help of a promoter to fund their first 20 fights or so......

FYI, it takes approx $150-200k to move a fighter from a pro debut to say 20-0, and less than 1/2 of 1% of all pro fighters will ever be on HBO or Showtime. The math isnt in favor of the promoter, thats for sure.... (which is why you can count on one hand the number of big-time promoters in the world)

Couldn't in theory the event make you money if more promoters worked towards making an event out of every boxing card vs making a name outta a couple guys on their roster that they hope to cash out on eventually like seems to be the plan at the lower levels of the sport?

And I ask that knowing if boxing worked like I'd like it to work & how it should work for the betterment of the sport the lower levels of the boxing wouldn't exist like it does now if at all, but there'd be more shows that would be profitable shows instead of the goal just being to "cash out" as a promoter much like many fighters try to do at some point of their career if they aren't elite level talents.

[Eff Pandas]

I tried google, but your "company" is so obscure and all over the place, it's hard to find the info I need.

I typed "One Punch Promotions boxers" and found nothing. Man, I can't even remember if he fought any high profile fighters so I can look through their boxrec's. Poor kid, I wish I could remember his name. If only he was promoted better.

I don't think One Punch has promoted a fight in several years. Or a pro show anyway. So there is no roster to find in the first place I don't believe

And sh^t man I found his boxrec in like 8 seconds so its not that hard to find.

Randomly One Punch didn't realize you promoted a Luis Ortiz & Keith Thurman show (or more I didn't get too creepy just looked at the last 10 or so shows). Thats cool sh^t. And could you break down what the financials of a show look like for any particular show you did? I think you've talked on this before, but didn't go into the particulars so much as just said you lost money most times & made like 2k or less a few times kinda thing.

[OnePunch]

Couldn't in theory the event make you money if more promoters worked towards making an event out of every boxing card vs making a name outta a couple guys on their roster that they hope to cash out on eventually like seems to be the plan at the lower levels of the sport?

And I ask that knowing if boxing worked like I'd like it to work & how it should work for the betterment of the sport the lower levels of the boxing wouldn't exist like it does now if at all, but there'd be more shows that would be profitable shows instead of the goal just being to "cash out" as a promoter much like many fighters try to do at some point of their career if they aren't elite level talents.

short answer, no.

longer answer: Club shows are basically "developmental" shows. You try and make them interesting enough or compelling enough to attract enough ticket buyers to help offset some of your costs. It is next to impossible to turn a profit on a club show without some sort of "name" that can attract big crowds. The hard costs are just too much to overcome without a "name" that can draw better than the normal local kids. And even if you do get that "name" kid who can draw, little by little your opponent costs go up, until even that "name" fighter's events arent making any money.

Believe me, promoting is a very unusual business. Its kind of like buying a stock. You put up a bunch of money up front, and hope for a nice return later. Once in a great while (Floyd, Oscar, Pac, Canelo, etc) the promoter hits a home run, but 99.9% of the time though that stock goes to zero lol


Edit: and before someone says "well just eliminate club shows", well without club shows there is no "boxing". There arent enough undercard slots on televised events to handle the volume of fights that club shows facilitate.

[OnePunch]

I don't think One Punch has promoted a fight in several years. Or a pro show anyway. So there is no roster to find in the first place I don't believe

And sh^t man I found his boxrec in like 8 seconds so its not that hard to find.

Randomly One Punch didn't realize you promoted a Luis Ortiz & Keith Thurman show (or more I didn't get too creepy just looked at the last 10 or so shows). Thats cool sh^t. And could you break down what the financials of a show look like for any particular show you did? I think you've talked on this before, but didn't go into the particulars so much as just said you lost money most times & made like 2k or less a few times kinda thing.

We also had Andre Ward on the Lacy-Reid card which I was the co-promoter behind Gary Shaw. I also co-promoted Tarver-Jones 3 (HBO PPV), Wright-Quartey (HBO), and Tarver-Woods (Showtime).

As to the financials, yes, most times the club shows lost money or maybe broke even. If you are going to do a good show, youre probably going to lose money. There are things you can do to NOT lose money (cheaper venue, less "event" lighting or other extras, load up the card with garbage paid-for fights, etc) but I didnt really care if I lost a few grand per show. I didnt want to put my name on a garbage product. It wasnt what I did for a living, so I didnt really need to earn money from it. Alot of people here like to make fun of me because I lost a couple hundred grand over the 12 years I did shows, but I never really thought I "lost" anything. The experiences I had, the people I met, the relationships I made, well I wouldnt trade that for 10 million.

[.:: JSFD26 ::.]

See Cuba...

This doesn't even make sense. If you dunno what you're talking about then you probably shouldn't say anything.


As far as the topic goes, I said this many years ago and got bashed for it but whatever. I don't see the need for promoters. Networks can have a guy take care of setting all this **** up. With social media being what it is today and how advanced media is altogether, Idk why we need promoters. Especially these assh0les who block fights.

[OnePunch]

This doesn't even make sense. If you dunno what you're talking about then you probably shouldn't say anything.


As far as the topic goes, I said this many years ago and got bashed for it but whatever. I don't see the need for promoters. Networks can have a guy take care of setting all this **** up. With social media being what it is today and how advanced media is altogether, Idk why we need promoters. Especially these assh0les who block fights.

Who do you propose will take the financial risk to develop the fighters?? The networks?? hahahahahhaaa

[HAMMER77777]

Promoters sell tickets and use that money to pay the fighters. The fighters fight.

Except that apparently boxers have to sell tickets too, sometimes. And if another fighter is with a rival promoter they can't fight him. And even if both fighters have the same promoter sometimes they still can't fight (i.e. Crawford-Pacquiao.)

I'm just questioning the whole paradigm. Might there be a way to throw this whole system in the toilet and start over? Or is this simply the best way to do things and that's all there is to it?

I agree! You don't have, Say, the Yankees refusing to play the Red Sox in MLB, or the Eagles refusing to play Dallas, in NFL, or whatever. Everyone plays everyone. There has to be 1 overall system, wherein the best have to Fight the best.

[HAMMER77777]

Who do you propose will take the financial risk to develop the fighters?? The networks?? hahahahahhaaa

But what about other individual sports, like golf, tennis, etc.. Obviously totally different sports, but the point is, that more or less, the best compete against the best, without (to my Knowledge, anyway) much (if any) need for promoters. Can't something similar exist in Boxing?

Maybe its not possible, but I'm just curious as to why.

[Eff Pandas]

We also had Andre Ward on the Lacy-Reid card which I was the co-promoter behind Gary Shaw. I also co-promoted Tarver-Jones 3 (HBO PPV), Wright-Quartey (HBO), and Tarver-Woods (Showtime).

Interesting. On those really big shows like those + as a co-promoter to a more notable promoter how are your duties different? I assume you take a back seat in a lot of ways & I'd assume, maybe incorrectly, that you get paid better for less actual work/bs involved in putting a show together.

As to the financials, yes, most times the club shows lost money or maybe broke even. If you are going to do a good show, youre probably going to lose money. There are things you can do to NOT lose money (cheaper venue, less "event" lighting or other extras, load up the card with garbage paid-for fights, etc) but I didnt really care if I lost a few grand per show. I didnt want to put my name on a garbage product. It wasnt what I did for a living, so I didnt really need to earn money from it. Alot of people here like to make fun of me because I lost a couple hundred grand over the 12 years I did shows, but I never really thought I "lost" anything. The experiences I had, the people I met, the relationships I made, well I wouldnt trade that for 10 million.

The stocks analogy you made in the other post is kinda crazy for a legit business which is what a promotion should ideally be, but I can definitely understand how the experience & people you met made it worthwhile even if its a business with lil opportunity for growth unless you can bankroll quality guys that can sell eventually or find a needle in the haystack fighter that the bankrolled guys didn't scoop up.

The way you talk about boxing on this club show level & largely how I think of boxing on any scale often makes boxing seem like an unviable business the overwhelming majority of the time. It almost seems like boxing has to restructure itself at some point cuz boxing will only get smaller & less impactful as more & more people struggle to make money cuz its not a viable system for most of the players in the space.

And I mean with GBP example you gave & I saw myself when it was released that's sorta insane to me a promotion with the roster of GBP is living & dying on one guy. If Canelo gets hit by a car tomorrow GBP is in deep sh^t & could end up being outta business basically. Is that the business or is GBP just f#cking up &/or spending money for future growth now kinda like many startup companies do? Idk, sh^t is all sorta nuts. I definitely wish boxing worked more simply & like other sports doe is all I know. There'd be fewer promoters, boxers & shows, but the value of the stock would shoot up I think.