Comments Thread For: Agitated Arum: HBO, Showtime Don't Own the Boxing Business!

[Eff Pandas]

unless im missing something or has amazon said they want to get in the boxing business?

You're missing something. All the online streaming services are looking to get into sports. There are already deals in place for other sports.

If Amazon can pay for NFL games they can afford boxing obviously.

Eventually someone is gonna knock on boxing's door with a deal too. "Regular TV" & cable is gonna be like listening to AM radio in another 10-15 years.

[Mitchell Kane]

Boxing is not super cheap to put on especially if we are talking real guys fighting, so if one promoter does that they are going to be taking big loses for a fairly long period (like PBC) until it slowly turns around. Boxing is really star driven so unless you have one of the few guys who can move the needle you are fighting to tread water basically. Top Rank has a good stable and Manny can still move the needle a bit (at least in the right situation) but they are basically in tread water mode, which is not an opportune time to invest heavily.

The question could be whether Top Rank could get buy-in from a Netflix/Amazon/Facebook/Twitter, etc. on Olympians like Shakur Stevenson and Michael Conlan.

Big companies don't always like dealing with certain aspects of boxing...but former Olympians tend to be more marketable.

Early pro fights would come pretty cheap...so it wouldn't necessarily require a lot of money or be that big of a big financial risk.

[Eff Pandas]

I don't dispute that there is a future in that sort of medium, but that fruit is not close to ripe yet. As such anyone putting on content needs to be able to eat some loses. NHL, NFL, MLB, NBA, MLS or EPL all can afford to subsidize the losses because they are spread out across a whole bunch of wealthy owners and tons of other revenue streams. Low end sports like darts or cross fit whatever eyeballs they can get are good because their content ain't worth much of anything if they can grow it and grow the sport that way they are better off even if they basically give the content away.

I still don't get how Arum accepting x dollars to put on a HBO, TruTV or UniMas show is any different then him accepting x dollars to put on a Hulu, Amazon or FB card. I don't understand where the risk is for Arum.

Boxing is not super cheap to put on especially if we are talking real guys fighting, so if one promoter does that they are going to be taking big loses for a fairly long period (like PBC) until it slowly turns around. Boxing is really star driven so unless you have one of the few guys who can move the needle you are fighting to tread water basically. Top Rank has a good stable and Manny can still move the needle a bit (at least in the right situation) but they are basically in tread water mode, which is not an opportune time to invest heavily.

Well if boxing has overpriced itself to the point of near extinction or some weird debate like that fair enough I suppose, but if something doesn't make more money then it spends I'd say a market correction is in store sooner or later for that specific thing.

I mean the whole purpose of any sporting event or season of a sport is to ultimately make a profit at the end of the event or season. If you can't do that how the f#ck are you even in business? Is Arum & other promoters a charity or non-profit?

I could see a WWE network type deal working but no one player is strong enough to pull that off currently. I know it is a pipe dream to get a bunch of big boxing players together but that is essentially what the start of a league would look like 6 or 8 strong teams that were on their own essentially, then coming together sacrificing a bit so a whole new system can be created.

I think getting the names together isn't even the biggest problem necessarily. I think the bigger problem is getting people to use said app or streaming service. I'm not sure the WWE or Fight Pass have made money yet & they've both been around a few years now. One of the problems with boxing is its average viewer thinks watching anything on your smartphones is the devil & more importantly hard to do. One of the problems facing boxing today is actually exposing itself to a younger audience to create new old people who complain about everything in another 20-30 years.

Meanwhile if you can get a Hulu or Amazon to throw you $15M to throw together 4 cards ($3.75M per event) a year thats already a better budget per card than HBO is giving guys & 4 big shows for a promoter these days is HUGE with the lack of dates. And Arum isn't taking any risk if these deals are working out like HBO does things that I can see. Hell he gots his own announcing team & graphics & all that sh^t already. They are good to go.

[The Gambler1981]

The question could be whether Top Rank could get buy-in from a Netflix/Amazon/Facebook/Twitter, etc. on Olympians like Shakur Stevenson and Michael Conlan.

Big companies don't always like dealing with certain aspects of boxing...but former Olympians tend to be more marketable.

Early pro fights would come pretty cheap...so it wouldn't necessarily require a lot of money or be that big of a big financial risk.

I don't think the problem is the prospects, because those guys would be fairly inexpensive to put on shows with. The thing is how many eyeballs are those guys really going to pull and build an audience with.

You really need to bring in the star players like a Crawford or a Lomachenko or Manny to really get some buy in from the public to grow the endeavor so people will watch the prospect and up and comers.

If Arum is just looking to put on prospect cards that could easily keep costs to a minimum and lower risk on his end.

[SweetPbfAli]

I do agree with Arum that HBO can't match make for top rank but reserve the right to approve or decline a suggested fight. Never been a fan of Bob but top rank's ability to build fighters and match them is second to none.

[The Gambler1981]

I still don't get how Arum accepting x dollars to put on a HBO, TruTV or UniMas show is any different then him accepting x dollars to put on a Hulu, Amazon or FB card. I don't understand where the risk is for Arum.



Well if boxing has overpriced itself to the point of near extinction or some weird debate like that fair enough I suppose, but if something doesn't make more money then it spends I'd say a market correction is in store sooner or later for that specific thing.

I mean the whole purpose of any sporting event or season of a sport is to ultimately make a profit at the end of the event or season. If you can't do that how the f#ck are you even in business? Is Arum & other promoters a charity or non-profit?



I think getting the names together isn't even the biggest problem necessarily. I think the bigger problem is getting people to use said app or streaming service. I'm not sure the WWE or Fight Pass have made money yet & they've both been around a few years now. One of the problems with boxing is its average viewer thinks watching anything on your smartphones is the devil & more importantly hard to do. One of the problems facing boxing today is actually exposing itself to a younger audience to create new old people who complain about everything in another 20-30 years.

Meanwhile if you can get a Hulu or Amazon to throw you $15M to throw together 4 cards ($3.75M per event) a year thats already a better budget per card than HBO is giving guys & 4 big shows for a promoter these days is HUGE with the lack of dates. And Arum isn't taking any risk if these deals are working out like HBO does things that I can see. Hell he gots his own announcing team & graphics & all that sh^t already. They are good to go.

It is risk because he will get less money from them, I guarantee it. Does the NFL get equal money from Amazon as they do from their TV deals? Eventually they may make most of their money from Amazon in ten or so years, but the NFL will survive 10 years no matter what to see those days. Can Top Rank survive a lean decade and be good to be reaping those rewards.

To me your figures are crazy optimistic, if he can get those sorts of deals this would just be happening there wouldn't even be conversation. If he could get a quarter million a show he would be jumping at it really. To me you are describing a deal you can't pass up, Arum would take that sort of thing in a heart beat.

I think the deal would be far less lucrative, with possible money that Arum can make on the back end being where his money would come from. That money may be hard to get if not impossible to tap into until ripe may years down the line.

[CONTROVERSIAL]

You're missing something. All the online streaming services are looking to get into sports. There are already deals in place for other sports.

If Amazon can pay for NFL games they can afford boxing obviously.

Eventually someone is gonna knock on boxing's door with a deal too. "Regular TV" & cable is gonna be like listening to AM radio in another 10-15 years.

you must be joking right? no streaming service on amazons level in america would ever get involved with boxing let alone give a crook like arum 10-15 mill lol....NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS.... Haymon might be able to smooth talk amazon into it but not arum...

[Eff Pandas]

It is risk because he will get less money from them, I guarantee it. Does the NFL get equal money from Amazon as they do from their TV deals? Eventually they may make most of their money from Amazon in ten or so years, but the NFL will survive 10 years no matter what to see those days. Can Top Rank survive a lean decade and be good to be reaping those rewards.

I don't necessarily see this getting Arum less money. The venue stuff is all going his way still. The rest of it is just gonna work the same.

Like I said I don't really see any difference at all in this vs whats going on with TV networks right now. This wouldn't be any different from moving to a new channel. The fact its a streaming network vs a TV channel is the only difference in how things should work in theory.

To me your figures are crazy optimistic, if he can get those sorts of deals this would just be happening there wouldn't even be conversation. If he could get a quarter million a show he would be jumping at it really. To me you are describing a deal you can't pass up, Arum would take that sort of thing in a heart beat.

I'm just throwing out some random numbers its not like I got insider knowledge. I said in my first post talking numbers that I could be high balling them & suggested $5M or $8M being lesser potential amounts. And I keep saying Arum cuz I think there is something going on, but you could just as easily say any promoter. And I agree a quarter mill per show is huge.

I think the deal would be far less lucrative, with possible money that Arum can make on the back end being where his money would come from. That money may be hard to get if not impossible to tap into until ripe may years down the line.

Idk that a back end is necessarily doable unless we are just making it Amazon PPV or whatever PPV. I think this would just work like any current regular TV deal (minus the PBC time buys).

I think saying this isn't happening is like some guy riding along saying these horses are gonna be the primary mode of transit for long trips for the foreseeable future as Model T's are zooming by you. This is coming. Everything is going to be streaming & even regular channels are getting into the streaming market now so everything is gonna be operating on the same landscape soon so any profits Arum would lose via Amazon or Hulu are profits he'd lose on HBO or Showtime when they are streaming exclusively & only your grandma & her friends gots cable.

[The Gambler1981]

I don't necessarily see this getting Arum less money. The venue stuff is all going his way still. The rest of it is just gonna work the same.

Like I said I don't really see any difference at all in this vs whats going on with TV networks right now. This wouldn't be any different from moving to a new channel. The fact its a streaming network vs a TV channel is the only difference in how things should work in theory.



I'm just throwing out some random numbers its not like I got insider knowledge. I said in my first post talking numbers that I could be high balling them & suggested $5M or $8M being lesser potential amounts. And I keep saying Arum cuz I think there is something going on, but you could just as easily say any promoter. And I agree a quarter mill per show is huge.



Idk that a back end is necessarily doable unless we are just making it Amazon PPV or whatever PPV. I think this would just work like any current regular TV deal (minus the PBC time buys).

I think saying this isn't happening is like some guy riding along saying these horses are gonna be the primary mode of transit for long trips for the foreseeable future as Model T's are zooming by you. This is coming. Everything is going to be streaming & even regular channels are getting into the streaming market now so everything is gonna be operating on the same landscape soon so any profits Arum would lose via Amazon or Hulu are profits he'd lose on HBO or Showtime when they are streaming exclusively & only your grandma & her friends gots cable.

Like I said eventually, it took a long time and a lot of investment in infrastructure to go from cars being invented to the model T making automobiles a real industry.

If it was that simple and clear cut Arum would do it but there are obviously issues that he isn't down for and Arum is not an easy guy to deal with either he always wants it his way. Arum will get less money from Amazon that he would get from HBO or Showtime on a per show basis so that is inherently less money per show. So even if he gets to put on 15 shows instead of 5 a year unless he can turn a profit on enough of the shows he could end up losing money on 15 shows instead of profiting on 5 which is not something Arum has ever wanted to do.

Maybe now is different because that might be the only way forward but if he had a good option in his mind he would already dipped on HBO a while ago.

[Thraxox]

You're missing something. All the online streaming services are looking to get into sports. There are already deals in place for other sports.

If Amazon can pay for NFL games they can afford boxing obviously.

Eventually someone is gonna knock on boxing's door with a deal too. "Regular TV" & cable is gonna be like listening to AM radio in another 10-15 years.

So what you are saying mate is that Bob Aum is trying to lool ahead?