Prime Iron Mike versus Joshua or Wilder today

[Mr Objecitivity]

What a terrible post.

It's so bad, I wouldn't even know where to start.

Why on earth have you mentioned Lewis, Williams and McBride?

I guarantee you that Danny Williams would tell you to your face that he'd have been lucky to have seen the 2nd round against the best versions of Mike.

Your stats are useless. Completely irrelevant.

Except, Mike Tyson never fought, never mind knocked out anybody the same weight of Danny Williams (270 + pounds). So I have no idea what you're using to base that conclusion.

Your stats are useless. Completely irrelevant.

That's a typical excuse / response for individuals who want to ignore ACTUAL facts just so that they can believe in what they want, rather than what has actually happened.

Stats aren't useless because they represent FACTS. Nor are they irrelevant for the very same reason.

[juggernaut666]

Frank Bruno was only the exception and not the norm.

Mike Tyson's knockout percentage was lower against opponents weighing 230 pounds than it was against opponents weighing less than that.

Even a prime Mike Tyson frequently failed to KO non-bummy tall opponents that were above 6 foot 3.

Only 4 guys managed to last with THE actual prime Tyson,one in which he carried (Tillis ) another nearly out on his feet in a ten rnder (Green ) . IF Tyson wanted the knock out he usuallygot it ,of course you can use bone crusher the guy who should have been DQ'd .

We all know none of these fights have actual meaning here bc we are using Joshua who is going to force a K.O on himself or vice versa bc STYLE of this fight says so and wont see past rnd 5 in all likely hood had it taken place .

At the end of the day you dont base entire careers you are comparing and matching up two fighters at their BEST ,one fight .

I would give Tyson JUST slight edge now but think Joshua will go one to become the best HW in history very soon.

[Pac=Duran]

Deontay & Joshua both win by KO. All hypothetical though, if Tyson can get inside of Deontays reach advantage he might be able to rock him.

So a Prime Mike Tyson would fail to beat the guy that was beaten to within an inch of his life by Harold Sconiers and floored by Dustin Nichols?

You're sort of right though cos Deontay woulf never fight Mike is 10 million years.

You should be banned for this comment.

[robertzimmerman]

This 'excuse' or justification would've been acceptable had Mike Tyson fought a skilled boxer with good defensive and elusive movement where Mike Tyson (despite having power) simply struggled to land his power punches due to his opponent being defensively skilled enough to avoid it.

Had Mike Tyson fought someone like a James Toney or Chris Byrd and struggled to KO them BECAUSE HE WAS UNABLE TO LAND HIS POWER PUNCHES due to them being skilled, then I could accept Mike Tyson may have had the KO power but simply lacked the offensive skills later on in his career such as speed, timing, leverage, accuracy and etc. to land his knockout punch rather than not having KO power at all.

Now considering Danny Williams and Kevin Mcbride were both bums and journeymen respectively, I can't accept the argument that Mike Tyson failed to KO them because he didn't have those offensive skills. Danny Williams, nor Kevin Mcrbide were elusive targets providing Mike Tyson with a difficult time of landing his KO punches. They were literally open, static targets where Mike Tyson was able to land, not just one, but multiple of his absolute hardest looking punches but they all seemed to bounce off both of them. That is evidence of Mike Tyson lacking KO power against opponents of such heavier weight, not evidence of Mike Tyson lacking offensive skills.

Mike Tyson didn't need his peak offensive skills to land his knockout punches on Danny Williams or Kevin Mcbride. Even an old Mike Tyson had enough offensive skills to land multiple power punches on such bums / journeymen. The reason why he couldn't knock them out was because his punching power was less effective against heavier opponents. In Mike Tyson's case, weight of opponents mattered more than quality of opposition!

If a boxer struggled to land his KO punches on his opponents altogether (David Tua struggling to land his KO punches against Chris Byrd), then you could argue that such a boxer may have KO power but simply lacked the offensive skills to land the KO punch.

However, if a boxer is able to land his power punches at will on his opponents (Mike Tyson against Danny Williams and Kevin Mcbride), but is still unable to knock them out, then it has to be inferred that such a boxer may have simply lacked knockout power altogether against such opposition.

Are you seriously telling me that you don't think that Mike could have taken out McBride and Williams had he have fought them in the 80's?

Are you serious?

Mike had nothing left against those 2. He quit against McBride, saying he wasn't going to embarrass the sport any further. There was nothing in his shots. McBride didn't take huge bombs where he repeatedly shrugged off the same kind of shots that had taken out Mike's former opponents.


Mike had great power. He was the only person to ever knock out Larry Holmes in 75 fights. Look at some of the guys who Larry fought.

He beat Bruno twice, in the same amount of time it took Lennox to beat him once.

Oliver McCall and Rahman knocked out Lennox.

Are you telling me that they were more powerful than Mike, and Mike couldn't have knocked out Lennox had he have had the perfect opportunity?


I suggest you go and look at some of the guys who beat and knocked out Williams and McBride, such as this guy below:

http://boxrec.com/boxer/6941

This guy only had 16 wins from 60 fights. Out of those 16 wins, he only had 8 knockouts. He was also around the same size as Mike. So are you going to tell me that Louis Monaco was a bigger puncher than Mike?


How about this guy?:

http://boxrec.com/boxer/69219

He took out McBride in 2 rounds.

Was he more powerful than Mike?


You are being silly.

If you could give me a long list of opponents who weighed the same as Williams and McBride who Mike had fought all throughout his career, which produced similar results, then that would be evidence. But you don't have that. All you have are 3 opponents, who were right at the end of his career, from 2002-2005. Which means that those statistics are completely irrelevant. Again, if you seriously think that the versions of Mike who fought the likes of Spinks and Holmes, couldn't have taken McBride out because of his size and weight, then you are completely deluded.

[robertzimmerman]

Doesn't matter. Those opponents were bums / journeymen. Meaning, a supposed hall of famer / ATG like Mike Tyson, even whilst he's shot should still not struggle to land his punches against bums / journeymen like Danny Williams and Kevin Mcbride (which he didn't of course). It's only a factor if a shot Mike Tyson was fighting a skilled opponent and failed.



Except, Danny Williams and Kevin Mcbride were very little like either Spinks or Holmes.

If anything, Danny Williams and Kevin Mcbride are more like Mitch Green and Bonecrusher Smith (two opponents Mike Tyson failed to KO) than Larry Holmes and Michael Spinks. Of course, both Danny Williams and Kevin Mcbride are much heavier than either Bonecrusher Smith or Mitch Green, thus being even more difficult to KO.



Statistics are facts. Meaning, they represent exactly what occurred. Even more so, if an event occurs consistently (Mike Tyson having poorer performances against taller, heavier or both) opposition, then that's exactly the norm.

James Smith was in survival mode, but Mike took out Frank Bruno in 3 rounds, who was the the same size as Smith, but heavier. That puts an immediate hole in your theory.


Your statistics are facts. But they don't allow for circumstances. Also, you only have THREE lots of statistics.

How on earth can you put together a theory based on just THREE lots of statistics? You can't.


You are saying Mike never knocked out anyone in his career who weighed as much as Williams, Lewis and McBride. Fine. But he didn't fight any other HW's that weighed that much. So you haven't got a true measure. And when he did fight those guys you've mentioned, his tank was empty. He was fighting purely for the cheques at that point.


What about 2 modern fighters who are as big and as heavy as Williams and McBride?

They are:

Mariusz Wach

David Price


Are you going to tell me that your evidence tells us that Mike couldn't have knocked them out?


Again, before we go any further, you need to look at who else knocked out Williams and McBride.

[robertzimmerman]

Frank Bruno was only the exception and not the norm.

Mike Tyson's knockout percentage was lower against opponents weighing 230 pounds than it was against opponents weighing less than that.

Even a prime Mike Tyson frequently failed to KO non-bummy tall opponents that were above 6 foot 3.

So now there's an exception?

List me all of the guys who Mike couldn't knock out who were above that weight?

How on earth can you not take into account the ability of the opponent, their style, the circumstances, and where Mike was in his career at the time?

I seriously cannot believe that you don't think a focused young 20's version of Mike, couldn't/wouldn't have taken out Williams and McBride, due to their size and weight.

Look at my previous posts.

How the hell were Luis Monaco and Mike Mollo able to do it?


Your theory holds no weight whatsoever. Because you don't have enough opponents to list, and they don't cover the full course of Mike's career.

[robertzimmerman]

Except, Mike Tyson never fought, never mind knocked out anybody the same weight of Danny Williams (270 + pounds). So I have no idea what you're using to base that conclusion.

That's a typical excuse / response for individuals who want to ignore ACTUAL facts just so that they can believe in what they want, rather than what has actually happened.

Stats aren't useless because they represent FACTS. Nor are they irrelevant for the very same reason.

Wake up man.

You're seriously trying to tell me that because Mike didn't knock out anybody the size of Danny Williams, that the likelihood is: he wouldn't have been able to have done so, even when he was at his best? It's laughable.

You're seriously saying the same with regards to McBride?

They were B and C class HW's, who lost and who were knocked out by other journeyman, who were inferior to Mike.

You're trying to tell me that Mike at his mid 80's best, couldn't replicate what a guy like Luis Monaco did?

Again, yes, your statistics are useless. Because you only have THREE opponents to try and prove your point, and Mike was completely finished as a top level fighter at that point.


You are living in a fantasy.

[deanrw]

The prime Tyson, walks through both of them like a hot knife through butter.

[REMOVE SHARK 55]

So a Prime Mike Tyson would fail to beat the guy that was beaten to within an inch of his life by Harold Sconiers and floored by Dustin Nichols?

You're sort of right though cos Deontay woulf never fight Mike is 10 million years.

You should be banned for this comment.

The rapist that got KO'd by Lewis? Yup that guy.

[dibzvincent143]

If they scheduled a prime Mike Tyson versus Joshua 3 months from now, and then Mike against Wilder 3 months after that -- who wins and how

Almost everyone now forgot how good prime mike tyson was. He's got an ATG skillset, ATG physical attributes and ATG killer instinct lol
P4p if hes at 147 he'd clubber mayweather
PEOple often mistake that u just gotta be defensive to consider skillful lol