Comments Thread For: Judge Rules Against Golden Boy in Its Lawsuit Against Al Haymon

[OnePunch]

That's an entirely different discussion.

The point being that even if the market had remained open at HBO there is nothing to indicate that they wouldn't be in the same exact situation they are in right now. HBO makes very little money from boxing compared to everything else they do. That is a fact and it shows when they allocate their budget just like any smart business does.

well technically HBO doesnt "make any money" at all from boxing. Its just additional content that they think their subscribers want. And it would seem that the gradual lowering of the budget over the years did not cause some mass exodus of subscribers, or they likely would have reversed course.....

[snoopymiller]

well technically HBO doesnt "make any money" at all from boxing. Its just additional content that they think their subscribers want. And it would seem that the gradual lowering of the budget over the years did not cause some mass exodus of subscribers, or they likely would have reversed course.....

They make money from subscribers... people subscribe for boxing so yes they "make money" from boxing.

The question is what is the percentage of subscribers specifically for boxing based on the viewership. That's been dwindling since 2000 so HBO has continued to invest less and less.

This would have happened regardless of the free market system you proposed as being beneficial for the industry.

[OnePunch]

They make money from subscribers... people subscribe for boxing so yes they "make money" from boxing.

The question is what is the percentage of subscribers specifically for boxing based on the viewership. That's been dwindling since 2000 so HBO has continued to invest less and less.

This would have happened regardless of the free market system you proposed as being beneficial for the industry.

maybe, maybe not. Impossible to know for sure one way or the other. The improved content that "actual competition" would have provided could possibly have increased viewership and stimulated HBO to up the ante.

But all we can do is speculate about what ifs.........

[snoopymiller]

maybe, maybe not. Impossible to know for sure one way or the other. The improved content that "actual competition" would have provided could possibly have increased viewership and stimulated HBO to up the ante.

But all we can do is speculate about what ifs.........

HBO had no competition from any other network anyone to "up the ante".

That is fact... not speculation.

Those are the driving forces behind sports rights... ratings AND competing networks. With no competition HBO really never had a reason to add more $$$ to the boxing pot since promoters had no other options.

[OnePunch]

HBO had no competition from any other network anyone to "up the ante".

That is fact... not speculation.

Those are the driving forces behind sports rights... ratings AND competing networks. With no competition HBO really never had a reason to add more $$$ to the boxing pot since promoters had no other options.

i wasnt referring to increased competition from other networks as the driving force behind a budget increase. I was referring to the possibility that airing better content over the past 5-10 years might have increased viewership which might have incentivized HBO to raise the budget not to compete with Showtime, etc, but to expand the # of shows. More WCB cards, more BAD cards, more Legendary Nights episodes, etc etc.

[snoopymiller]

i wasnt referring to increased competition from other networks as the driving force behind a budget increase. I was referring to the possibility that airing better content over the past 5-10 years might have increased viewership which might have incentivized HBO to raise the budget not to compete with Showtime, etc, but to expand the # of shows. More WCB cards, more BAD cards, more Legendary Nights episodes, etc etc.

I know what you meant... I'm merely stating the obvious that much of what drives sports rights $$$ is network competition.

Ratings are just one part of it and boxing on HBO has been competing with other programming on HBO.

Would it be smarter for an HBO exec to invest an additional $30M in boxing or allocate that $30M to potentially develop the next "Game of Thrones" or "Sopranos".

The answer is more than obvious due to the economics.

[original zero]

It would be IMPOSSIBLE for Haymons contracted promoters to have the slightest friggin idea how much total revenue is available to pay out in purses, because they are getting all their numbers straight from Haymon.

and if haymon's numbers are wrong and the promoter loses money, they are reimbursed. but there's no "profit" going in haymon's pocket. he makes his money from management fees. period.

Do you really believe that 4 or 5 different "promoters" are each dealing with Corona, Ford, etc regarding ad buys for the events they "promote"? (You know damn well that Haymon Sports negotiates the ad sales)

band managers negotiate sponsorships all the time, but the money doesn't go directly in the manager's pocket, they make their money from the management commission they take on the revenue.

Do you really believe that 4 or 5 different "promoters" are all negotiating overseas broadcast rights on behalf of fighters they dont even have under contract? I'd be willing to bet the Haymon "promoters" dont even have library rights to the fights they "promote", much less distribution rights. (You know damn well that Haymon Sports has the distribution rights)

band managers negotiate overseas broadcast rights for concerts all the time, but the money doesn't go directly in the manager's pocket, they make their money from the management commission they take on the revenue.

Do you really believe that 4 or 5 different "promoters" are all negotiating with Espinoza on behalf of Haymon clients? Do you honestly believe Haymon would remove himself from those negotiations? (You know damn well that Haymon negotiates his own rights fee deals, same as he did with Kery Davis at HBO)

and just like haymon did at hbo, his revenue source is his management cut. he's not skimming any money off the top. he is a manager. he has a fiduciary duty. you are accusing him of wide scale fraud with ZERO PROOF and ZERO evidence.

at least admit this is just a conspiracy theory you imagined out of thin air and you have nothing to back it up.

[snoopymiller]

and if haymon's numbers are wrong and the promoter loses money, they are reimbursed. but there's no "profit" going in haymon's pocket. he makes his money from management fees. period.




band managers negotiate sponsorships all the time, but the money doesn't go directly in the manager's pocket, they make their money from the management commission they take on the revenue.




band managers negotiate overseas broadcast rights for concerts all the time, but the money doesn't go directly in the manager's pocket, they make their money from the management commission they take on the revenue.




and just like haymon did at hbo, his revenue source is his management cut. he's not skimming any money off the top. he is a manager. he has a fiduciary duty. you are accusing him of wide scale fraud with ZERO PROOF and ZERO evidence.

at least admit this is just a conspiracy theory you imagined out of thin air and you have nothing to back it up.

Who cares about all this... the question is what alternative Terry Trekass can conjure that would benefit boxing on the level Haymon is shooting for.

All we have thus far is an open market place we're the mom and pop shops all vie for HBO dates. That is a piss poor alternative that offers literally no solution to the current problem.

[OnePunch]

I know what you meant... I'm merely stating the obvious that much of what drives sports rights $$$ is network competition.

Ratings are just one part of it and boxing on HBO has been competing with other programming on HBO.

Would it be smarter for an HBO exec to invest an additional $30M in boxing or allocate that $30M to potentially develop the next "Game of Thrones" or "Sopranos".

The answer is more than obvious due to the economics.

Boxing is probably cheaper content overall than those types of series, because for every "Game of Thrones" success there are a dozen or more "Luck" or "Vinyl" on the scrapheap.

[OnePunch]

Who cares about all this... the question is what alternative Terry Trekass can conjure that would benefit boxing on the level Haymon is shooting for.

All we have thus far is an open market place we're the mom and pop shops all vie for HBO dates. That is a piss poor alternative that offers literally no solution to the current problem.

you are expecting someone to have a magic pill that will instantly undo 30 years of neglect. It doesnt exist. And Haymons pill wont work either. Boxing has no credibility with the masses, and until that trust with the consumer is rebuilt, all the "but but but it free doe" cards in the world wont make a dimes worth of difference......