Comments Thread For: Judge Rules Against Golden Boy in Its Lawsuit Against Al Haymon

[OnePunch]

Which is exactly what Haymon does.




Wrong.




And if Haymon raises the number too high, the promoter will say **** off and Haymon can either lower the numbers or try to find a promoter who says yes.

Haymon is acting as a manager in every way. He's just a way better manager than what boxing was accustomed to, so he's been able to negotiate far better terms for his fighters.

Before, HBO would put up 2 million for a fight, the promoter would keep a million for himself and let the fighters split the rest. And if the fighters didn't like it, too bad, you're under an exclusive contract and you can sit home and starve or you can take the fight.

Since Haymon was smart enough to build a stable that isn't locked up under exclusive promotional contracts, he can say to the promoter, the entire 2 million goes to the fighters, you can make some profit and have your expenses reimbursed from other revenue streams, but the fighters are getting the bulk of the money and if you don't like it, you can sit home and starve and I'll find another promoter that'll say yes.

So the balance of power has changed. But Haymon isn't doing what you're imagining he's doing. You're imagining that he divvies up the pot how he sees fit and puts any "profit" directly into his pocket, thus creating a financial motive to actually lower the purses of the fighters. Which OF COURSE would violate the Ali act, but even separate from the Ali act, he has a fiduciary duty to his performers and in ANY BUSINESS that would be fraud and if caught, he could go to jail.

But you have NO PROOF and NO EVIDENCE that he's doing that and after 35 pages you refuse to offer any proof or evidence. It's just a wack job conspiracy theory that you invented that has no basis in fact or reality.

Pure fantasy.

It would be IMPOSSIBLE for Haymons contracted promoters to have the slightest friggin idea how much total revenue is available to pay out in purses, because they are getting all their numbers straight from Haymon.

Do you really believe that 4 or 5 different "promoters" are each dealing with Corona, Ford, etc regarding ad buys for the events they "promote"? (You know damn well that Haymon Sports negotiates the ad sales)

Do you really believe that 4 or 5 different "promoters" are all negotiating overseas broadcast rights on behalf of fighters they dont even have under contract? I'd be willing to bet the Haymon "promoters" dont even have library rights to the fights they "promote", much less distribution rights. (You know damn well that Haymon Sports has the distribution rights)

Do you really believe that 4 or 5 different "promoters" are all negotiating with Espinoza on behalf of Haymon clients? Do you honestly believe Haymon would remove himself from those negotiations? (You know damn well that Haymon negotiates his own rights fee deals, same as he did with Kery Davis at HBO)

The "promoter" gets the "available revenue" number from Haymon, and then Haymon basically negotiates against himself. You can dress it up any way you want, but it doesnt change the facts.

[snoopymiller]

broadcast networks being willing to allocate resources for boxing would be a GREAT thing for the sport. Now whether haymons model is the best one to use though is still up for debate. And Im also not a big fan of "exclusive content" deals, as the lack of competition usually leads to an inferior product in the end. I prefer the old method of multiple promoters all pitching proposed cards to the networks......

The old method of multiple promoters pitching proposed cards to networks led to exactly were we are today...

Without PBC and their investors... nothing pushes the marker forward.

[OnePunch]

The old method of multiple promoters pitching proposed cards to networks led to exactly were we are today...

Without PBC and their investors... nothing pushes the marker forward.

actually, what got us here today was network executives playing favorites and not actually evaluating the best offerings available. Showtime did it with Gary Shaw (whom I really like), and now Haymon. And HBO went through their phases where it was mostly Top Rank, or mostly Golden Boy, etc. But I can remember years back when HBO in a given year would have shows by Top Rank, America Presents, Main Events, Don King, Goosen, Dibella, Square Ring, etc, etc. THAT was when there was actually competition for the slots......

[snoopymiller]

actually, what got us here today was network executives playing favorites and not actually evaluating the best offerings available. Showtime did it with Gary Shaw (whom I really like), and now Haymon. And HBO went through their phases where it was mostly Top Rank, or mostly Golden Boy, etc. But I can remember years back when HBO in a given year would have shows by Top Rank, America Presents, Main Events, Don King, Goosen, Dibella, Square Ring, etc, etc. THAT was when there was actually competition for the slots......

From what I understand... HBO works with K2, GBP, Top Rank, Main Events, Rock Nation. Isn't that competition?

[OnePunch]

From what I understand... HBO works with K2, GBP, Top Rank, Main Events, Rock Nation. Isn't that competition?

not really, because they are only giving them dates for the specific fighters that HBO has under exclusive contract. It has nothing to do with the concept of a wide selection of promoters all submitting their best offerings......

And yes, I think network exclusive deals are overall a bad thing for the sport. Yes, it might be great for the handful of fighters who get those deals, but overall its not good.....

[snoopymiller]

actually, what got us here today was network executives playing favorites and not actually evaluating the best offerings available. Showtime did it with Gary Shaw (whom I really like), and now Haymon. And HBO went through their phases where it was mostly Top Rank, or mostly Golden Boy, etc. But I can remember years back when HBO in a given year would have shows by Top Rank, America Presents, Main Events, Don King, Goosen, Dibella, Square Ring, etc, etc. THAT was when there was actually competition for the slots......

not really, because they are only giving them dates for the specific fighters that HBO has under exclusive contract. It has nothing to do with the concept of a wide selection of promoters all submitting their best offerings......

And yes, I think network exclusive deals are overall a bad thing for the sport. Yes, it might be great for the handful of fighters who get those deals, but overall its not good.....

So you think that if HBO had kept a policy of no contracts and free to whoever has the best fighters that they would still have a budget over $40 million?

[OnePunch]

So you think that if HBO had kept a policy of no contracts and free to whoever has the best fighters that they would still have a budget over $40 million?

Thats a question I couldnt answer because I dont know how strong their commitment is going forward.

But what I do know for sure is that if they did not have exclusive contracts, and were willing to review all offers and only buy the best available fights, well lets just say their offerings over the past 2 or 3 years would have been MUCH better. Fights like GGG-Wade, Ward-Brand, etc etc would have been relegated to lower end channels, and HBOs resources could have been used on much better fights that actually MEANT something.......

[snoopymiller]

Thats a question I couldnt answer because I dont know how strong their commitment is going forward.

But what I do know for sure is that if they did not have exclusive contracts, and were willing to review all offers and only buy the best available fights, well lets just say their offerings over the past 2 or 3 years would have been MUCH better. Fights like GGG-Wade, Ward-Brand, etc etc would have been relegated to lower end channels, and HBOs resources could have been used on much better fights that actually MEANT something.......

I think it would have ultimately come down to viewership.

If they had drawn high #s... there might have been a chance for HBO bosses to have some reason to retain a higher budget although without any competition there was really no reason to pay more for fights.

[OnePunch]

I think it would have ultimately come down to viewership.

If they had drawn high #s... there might have been a chance for HBO bosses to have some reason to retain a higher budget although without any competition there was really no reason to pay more for fights.

I dont disagree. I do wonder though when the antiquated "ratings" system will ever be updated. Nielsen is a joke. You would think with the "smart" cable boxes these days that there would be more accurate data collection methods than Nielsen. Its absurd........

[snoopymiller]

I dont disagree. I do wonder though when the antiquated "ratings" system will ever be updated. Nielsen is a joke. You would think with the "smart" cable boxes these days that there would be more accurate data collection methods than Nielsen. Its absurd........

That's an entirely different discussion.

The point being that even if the market had remained open at HBO there is nothing to indicate that they wouldn't be in the same exact situation they are in right now. HBO makes very little money from boxing compared to everything else they do. That is a fact and it shows when they allocate their budget just like any smart business does.