Comments Thread For: Judge Rules Against Golden Boy in Its Lawsuit Against Al Haymon

[Butch.McRae]

The overall issue you keep avoiding is that if your claims are true, why weren't they discovered in the discovery phase?

The main reason I predicted Haymon would win this case is because of his previous success as a businessman. So let's say Haymon is in violation of the Ali Act but legally he's covered his ass so there is no way to prove he's in violation of the Ali Act. I'm wondering why would you think he wouldn't legally cover is ass when he's been a successful businessman and there was hundreds of millions of dollars at stake? You really thought a guy as successful and smart as Haymon would've overlooked a way to circumvent the Ali Act and be tripped up by it? You don't become as successful as he is by not covering your ass legally.

Everyone knows Arum is in violation of the Ali Act but everyone also expects him to cover his all legally. Haymon is a product of the soft bigotry of lowered expectations in boxing (and business in general). No one ever saw him becoming this successful because they didn't expect a black man to be as smart and savvy as he is. That's the key to most successful black people in America. The expectations of us are so low that instead of complaining about them we exploit them. I love being underestimated and will even play into it for my advantage. When he got into boxing they ignored his innovations in concert promoting. The biggest being the hand off of concerts from regional promoter to regional promoter to becoming one nationwide promoter. Sound familiar?

Admire the effort to explain this nuanced topic in the thread, but I've learned you can only feed forums like this so much. Someone's head might explode trying to comprehend lol

[aboutfkntime]

[Scipio2009]

According to Chavez Sr, Canelo is basically running his own promotions. He may not need Golden Boy soon



http://boxingego.com/chavez-sr-de-la...o-calls-shots/

If that's the case, Oscar is likely another bad relapse away from Alvarez simply demanding that Eric Gomez handles his business (with Alvarez likely leaving Golden Boy once their partnership deal is up).

[Scipio2009]

This seems to be getting ignored.

There's a reason for that, tbh. "What's understood doesn't need to be talked about", as Floyd would say

[Scipio2009]

Meanwhile if you want any hope to ever fight on ppv and get big money fights you need to be with a promoter who works with hbo or bob arum because haymon hasnt even developed his fighters into ppv stars yet. With all the talent and hundreds of millions of investors money he had its a shame the state his company is in right now. His own investors are suing didnt you read the report?
Haymon cards on free t.v. have came to a halt with the exception of garcia thurman so all this time and money later haymons fighters are in a worst state than ever and they are starting to complain about a lack of fights

lol.

If you honestly don't think that Wilder-Joshua isn't going to end up on PPV, you're a fool.

What fighters has Top Rank developed into PPV attractions since leveraging Oscar and Floyd to make Pacquiao? To go even further, with Ward on his way over to the Showtime orbit (doubt that HBO is going to show Ward the money), what fighter on the HBO side of the fence is positioned to join Alvarez as a PPV attraction?

The salt in your veins must be unbearable at this point

[original zero]

JJ Smyth -

You continue to be confused about basic facts. The settlement between DLH & Schaefer can't be read because it's sealed. What you're thinking of is Haymon exercising the opt out clauses in the contracts of his fighters and GB receiving millions from Haymon's fighters when they exited their deals.

That is very very different from Schaefer paying millions. You simply have your facts mixed up. I've read the summary judgement, word for word, five times. There is absolutely nothing about Schaefer paying DLH millions of dollars.



One Punch -

But the problem for your position Terry is the fact that Haymon has allowed his fighters to participate in HBO PPVs when the opportunity has presented itself. He has not allowed his long term vision to interfere with his fiduciary duty to each fighter.

It is not a fact that Haymon is violating the Ali act and you've offered absolutely no evidence that he is. You assume the judge is a hack because he obliterated your argument, but you need to consider the possibility that you are the hack.

On the time buy events, which are loss leaders to increase the long term value of his stable, Haymon does not take a management commission because on those events, he is controlling the revenue. But since there is no profit, it's impossible for him to be profiting at the expense of the fighter.

On the events with a traditional license fee, Haymon is not operating any different than he was at HBO. He minimizes the promoter's profit to maximize the fighters' purses, which maximizes his management commission. This is not a violation of the Ali act.

[Scipio2009]

Evidence please. My opinion is HBO will win becuase it has more star power and I see haymon fighters fighting in HBO, not the other way around. Canelo, GGG, Lomachenko, Crawford, Pacman, Gonzalez, Kovalev, Ward, Vargas. Beat this list with PBC boxers.

Deontay Wilder, Danny Garcia, and Showtime's partnership with Matchroom Sport for Joshua/Degale/Brook, alone, gives your list a run for it's money; and that's even before considering that Andre Ward is on the open market and will likely cross over after the Kovalev rematch.

You add the fact that the young fighters (Errol Spence Jr, Charlo Brothers, Ryan Karl, Caleb Pant, etc) coming along, and there's really no comparison.

[jjsmyth87]

lol.

If you honestly don't think that Wilder-Joshua isn't going to end up on PPV, you're a fool.

What fighters has Top Rank developed into PPV attractions since leveraging Oscar and Floyd to make Pacquiao? To go even further, with Ward on his way over to the Showtime orbit (doubt that HBO is going to show Ward the money), what fighter on the HBO side of the fence is positioned to join Alvarez as a PPV attraction?

The salt in your veins must be unbearable at this point

Pacquiao still fights on ppv while crawford already had his first ppv. By the time pacquiao retires crawford and loma will both be bona fide ppv stars

[OnePunch]

JJ Smyth -

You continue to be confused about basic facts. The settlement between DLH & Schaefer can't be read because it's sealed. What you're thinking of is Haymon exercising the opt out clauses in the contracts of his fighters and GB receiving millions from Haymon's fighters when they exited their deals.

That is very very different from Schaefer paying millions. You simply have your facts mixed up. I've read the summary judgement, word for word, five times. There is absolutely nothing about Schaefer paying DLH millions of dollars.



One Punch -

But the problem for your position Terry is the fact that Haymon has allowed his fighters to participate in HBO PPVs when the opportunity has presented itself. He has not allowed his long term vision to interfere with his fiduciary duty to each fighter.

It is not a fact that Haymon is violating the Ali act and you've offered absolutely no evidence that he is. You assume the judge is a hack because he obliterated your argument, but you need to consider the possibility that you are the hack.

On the time buy events, which are loss leaders to increase the long term value of his stable, Haymon does not take a management commission because on those events, he is controlling the revenue. But since there is no profit, it's impossible for him to be profiting at the expense of the fighter.

On the events with a traditional license fee, Haymon is not operating any different than he was at HBO. He minimizes the promoter's profit to maximize the fighters' purses, which maximizes his management commission. This is not a violation of the Ali act.

Perhaps you should READ the judges ruling. He didnt "destroy" my argument at all. He didnt say that Haymon was not violating the Act. All he said was that Golden Boy was not "injured" by the alleged acts by Haymon.


As to the "long term vision" argument, I never said Haymon was trying to limit his fighters earnings. Quite the contrary actually. I was responding to the other poster who thinks Haymon should turn into Karl Marx and not ever pay anyone tens of millions for 1 fight. I think that premise is absurd, and if Haymon ever actually did that he would certainly be in breach of his fiduciary duty to the fighter.

But lets dumb this down for a moment, and answer the 3 questions I posed earlier:

1. Is Haymon a licensed manager?

2. Does the Ali Act prohibit a manager from having a financial interest in the promotion of a boxer?

3. Does Haymon retain any revenue from PBC events, such as ticket sales or advertising sales?


You can talk all the smack you want, but the answer to those 3 questions prove without a doubt that Haymon is in violation of the Ali Act. The fact that a judge decided GBP wasnt injured by Haymons "alleged" conduct has nothing to do with whether or not Haymon is in violation.

And also lets take a trip down memory lane. You were one of the people steadfastly arguing that Haymon had given all or part of his management commissions back to Waddell & Reed as part of their deal. Now if that were true, then how do you suppose he just magically "waived" those fees after the Top Rank settlement? By your argument those fees weren't his to waive, they were Waddell & Reeds. Care to elaborate and save me the time of searching the old threads?

[Scipio2009]

he's trying to kill PPV. PPV allowed a small handful to make crazy money while everybody else starved. haymon's model will eventually end the days of guys making tens of millions in one night, but will allow for hundreds of fighters to make a great living instead of just a chosen few.




no, his investors are being sued by their investors. haymon is in the clear.

and it's a shame the state his company is in? he has more control of US boxing than ever and more world champions than ever. meanwhile, TR & GB have less control than ever. seems haymon's plan is working quite nicely.




wrong. thurman/garcia on CBS, deontay wilder defending WBC world heavyweight championship on FOX. not to mention several shows on basic cable and an NBC date later in the year as well.

I don't think that Haymon's model will end the days of guys making tens of millions per fight; I just think that Haymon's model will end up with only truly PPV-level events ending up on PPV. Deontay Wilder vs Anthony Joshua is likely to still end up being the type of event that Haymon is for sure going to put on PPV.

PPVs will revert to being rare occurrences