Jack Dempsey vs Today's Heavyweights

[Real King Kong]

There's video of Tunney on YouTube. You should watch it, the guy glides around the ring smoother than Muhammad Ali.

I've watched some footage of those guys, but without putting everything in context, it's not much more than the eye test. I wasn't around to see their fights or follow their careers...or see what their notable opponents did against other opposition. It's hard to judge by some of that old ****ty footage too. I'm just going by who has the most advantages in a head to head matchup.

[Sheldon312]

I've watched some footage of those guys, but without putting everything in context, it's not much more than the eye test. I wasn't around to see their fights or follow their careers...or see what their notable opponents did against other opposition. It's hard to judge by some of that old ****ty footage too. I'm just going by who has the most advantages in a head to head matchup.

I think you're inderratong past fighters but overrating current fighters.

[Joe Beamish]

I tend to favor the best older guys over the newer guys unless they're significantly outsized by an athletic guy with skills. Joe Gans would be the best lightweight today, but Dempsey would be way smaller than other heavyweights. He would murder someone his size today, and probably murder a lot of bigger guys, but...today's guys are WAY bigger.

I favor Dempsey by the old rules. Twelve rounds vs. no limit is a huge, huge difference. How many mammoth sized fighters today could go like 25 rounds??
But under today's rules, I don't know, the huge guys would probably have an advantage even though they lack experience and skills.

[Real King Kong]

I think you're inderratong past fighters but overrating current fighters.

Nah...i have a personal collection of thousands of fights and i actually started by collecting older fights. Of the 9 or so dempsey fights i have, it's still not enough to make much of a judgment because i don't have several fights of each of his opponents. I generally don't like getting into mythical matchup arguments...but it's just hard to see him overcoming the physical disadvantages he'd have against some of today's heavys.

[Sheldon312]

Nah...i have a personal collection of thousands of fights and i actually started by collecting older fights. Of the 9 or so dempsey fights i have, it's still not enough to make much of a judgment because i don't have several fights of each of his opponents. I generally don't like getting into mythical matchup arguments...but it's just hard to see him overcoming the physical disadvantages he'd have against some of today's heavys.

So, do you think Wilder beats foreman?

[Real King Kong]

So, do you think Wilder beats foreman?

No...I'm not big on wilder. It's conceivable that he could i suppose, but we haven't seen wilder face anyone that applies that type of pressure and hits that hard. He could probably beat the 45 yr old foreman tho.

[LoadedWraps]

Who's faster than Dempsey???????????

Nobody

Who's BOBBING AND WEAVING their way inside?????

Nobody

Who's gonna make him look slow....????

Nobody

Ha!



How many of today's top 15 HW's are as fast as what Jack was?

Fury.

Dempsey beats everyone else at HW right now, but Fury is champion in any era.

[JakeTheBoxer]

Had Dempsey ever faced guys big as Wilder, Wlad Klitschko, Joshua? I don`t wanna even mention Fury..

Dempsey would be a dwarf in division nowadays. He would end like Mormeck or Leapai.

[REMOVE SHARK 55]

I can't respond to everyone but I'm absolutely loving the fact that I've rattled the old guards cages. I'm what Breitbart aspires to be when it comes to representing the alternative view and I shall forever hold onto that.

Could you explain to me how fighters today are better than Dempsey?

He would get stopped in the first three rounds in today's HW division because he was SIMPLY too small. Only on Boxing Scene do people not want to take into account physical limitations in the Heavyweight division. We're not talking about straw weight,we're talking about prime Wlad left hook and Joshuas straight right that would stop 100% of the pre-war heavies.

Dempsey would destroy guys like Klitschko, Joshua, Fury, Parker, and Wilder.

They wouldn't know what to do again at his head movement and two fisted body attack.

He's not facing big Hw's that were uncoordinated in those days. People were scared because 6 ft 6 Willard had killed a man. That story would never run In the printed press because the guy he killed would have been absolute garbage this era (my apologies to the family's fighter & anyone offended).
Super Hws from Lewis onwards are the crem de la crem of Hws and the only thing that's stopping my opinion being a fact is that this is a hypothetical discussion. Lewis, Wlad, Joshua all Gold medalists in the Super HW category. All big men that can box like those prior to them couldn't do. How many people won a Gold in the HW division in those days that would be considered a Super HW today?.

"Boxers are bigger, faster, stronger and wayyyyy better fundamentally than those previous to us"???.................

Really? Wilder and the Klitz bros are better technically than Joe Louis? You must be on drugs?
Secondly who compares to Sugar Ray Robinson in the skills department? Who is as mean and determined as he was?
Why is Sugar the most copied boxer of all time? Ezzard Charles Ali, Ray Leonard all tried to copy Robinson. I wonder why?

In the past boxing had multiple men who brought intrigue and substance to the ring, today there are very few great fighters.
Last night was a good competitive fight to watch, neither man made anything near what Pac & lil" Floyd made yet they put those to so-called "greats" to shame!
Being great today is mostly hype and it's sold to fans that rarely if ever attend a live boxing show. They have no reality as to what the sport is all about. Watching tv is not the way to watch boxing, the same can be said about all contact sports.
Watch hockey in person then on tv you'll be disappointed in the coverage!

nite kids
Ray

Was it not you complaining that these Super HWs are boring and fight like fighters from the 1972 Olympics, similar to a game of tag?. In your opinion do you really think 6 ft 1 Dempsey would go past 2 rounds with Joshua?. It would be a forgone conclusion and I guarantee you Joshua would be 1/200 with bookmakers outright.
Floyd Mayweather is better than Sugar Ray Robinson in the skills department and only those who are brainwashed by nostalgia would refute my claims. Why do all fighters copy Sugar Ray?. Have you ever heard of Evolution? Taking from previous while fine tuning to making it better today.
The reason why dogs are stronger and smarter is because we've breeded them better and the same applies to us humans. We have taken the best traits via DNA and teachings from those prior to us. The reason why their isn't many more Dempseys is because the western front lost majority of the strongest men on the front line but I'll save that for another day because majority of NSB haven't got brain cells to comprehend what I'm saying.

Some of today's top 10 guys are garbage and have done nothing.

I'd have put my house on Jack beating a guy like Stiverne.

And I'll lay your bet with twice your stake to prove how confident I am that Dempsey would get stopped by any of today's competent super HWs.

Einstein was not as clever as stephen hawking because it was ages ago innit.

People are just more clever nowadays

If you think Stephen Hawking hasn't got more knowledge about the world today than Albert Einstein did back then not only do you represent the ultra pragmatic posters on this forum you are the most stupid human walking the face of the earth. You failed in your attempt to be funny now find another analogy.

[billeau2]

Great post mate.

Jack was unique.

I'm just about to start reading his biography: The Manassa Mauler.

You can also read his book on boxing theory on line, here is the link just download:

http://bmsi.ru/issueview/50fc5c79-9b...20fighting.pdf

Like Bruce Lee Jack wrote extensively on theory. Like Lee he became concerned because fighters at the time were not innovating and using proper technical rigor. For Lee this had to do with tradition...to sum it up: "if your sensay say to jump off ruuf, do you jump off ruuf?" With Dempsey it had to do with guys using "mufflers" (gloves) and hitting with no force.

The old way of fighting was by its nature divided into defensive and offensive movements and there was a tendency for guys to stay on the back leg exclusively. Dempsey created a distance, and a vocabulary that was for the puncher exclusively, and not defensive in nature. This later led to guys like Blackburn developing the technically excellent Louis etc. But Dempsey's bob and weave style, the ability to slip punches, where as guys like Jack Johnson would catch the punches on the gloves, is still the boxing vocabulary of the puncher.

Dempsey would look like Tyson if he fought today. he would have to make some accomodations because of the gloves, and this might well involve putting on some more weight because of the size of the gloves.