Do you think James Toney was skilled and talented?

[IronDanHamza]

Damn you salty... Toney **** yo girl or somthin?

Yeah mate he did.

[JAB5239]

No not really.

But it would explain why he has zero dominant performances against top level opposition and why he struggled and lost to sub par and unranked opponents throughout his career.

Or maybe it's because he's simply not as good as people think.

Or perhaps both.

Toney was lazy, I'm not sure you would find anyone short of a certified moron to argue that. But when he was on he had great skills. Not great at anything in particular, but great overall. His mental lapses (which were many) cost him an all time standing rather than what he could bring to the table. But his talent is pretty obvious...at least to me. If he had been more dedicated.....if he had been more dedicated......who knows?

[BM dnobagaV]

Yeah mate he did.

That answers itself.

[IronDanHamza]

Toney was lazy, I'm not sure you would find anyone short of a certified moron to argue that. But when he was on he had great skills. Not great at anything in particular, but great overall. His mental lapses (which were many) cost him an all time standing rather than what he could bring to the table. But his talent is pretty obvious...at least to me. If he had been more dedicated.....if he had been more dedicated......who knows?

I never disputed he was talented nor did I dispute he was skilled.

However I feel in both carergories he's not as good as claimed.

To say he had "great skills" is not true IMO.

If you watch Reggie Johnson vs James Toney who looks more skilled out of the two?

[Weltschmerz]

Only Roy Jones gave him a run for his money? Are you serious? What does "run for his money" mean? Because last I checked Roy Jones embarrassed James Toney without leaving first gear.

Sanderline Williams and Merqui Sosa gave him a run for his money for crying out loud.

Dave Tiberi and Drake Thadzi not only gave him a run for his money, they beat him CLEARLY.

Every single top fighter he faced gave him a run for his money.

Reggie Johnson beat him IMO and worse case scenario made him look like an amateur.

Montel Griffin beat him twice. Both close.

Drew with McCallum and got a gift the second time.

Nunn got stopped, but up to the stoppage was well in control.

All of the above gave him a run for his money, and then some.

Michael Nunn, Reggie Johnson, Mike McCallum, Iran Barkley, Vassiliy Jirov, Evander Holyfield, etc.. can't take away from his resume.

I'd say he had most potential at 168 though, he would beat Calzaghe for instance. He won the first McCallum too IMO which means he whooped him thrice.

[StefanTosic]

He was so skilled, he could be one of the very best.

[IronDanHamza]

Michael Nunn, Reggie Johnson, Mike McCallum, Iran Barkley, Vassiliy Jirov, Evander Holyfield, etc.. can't take away from his resume.

I'd say he had most potential at 168 though, he would beat Calzaghe for instance. He won the first McCallum too IMO which means he whooped him thrice.

But Nunn, Johnson and McCallum all gave him a run for his money and then some so how can you say only Roy Jones did

Dave Tiberi and Drake Thadzi are journeyman and they beat him clearly.

You think he won the first McCallum fight. Ok. It was a draw. I thought McCallum won the second one. As do most. The third one was pointless. He didn't "whoop" McCallum at any point until he was finished.

Dave Tiberi whooped Toney. That's a whooping. McCallum could very easily have won both of those fights with Toney.

Johnson beat him too IMO.

Fact is to say only Roy Jones gave him a run for his money is an outrageous statment.

[Weltschmerz]

But Nunn, Johnson and McCallum all gave him a run for his money and then some so how can you say only Roy Jones did

Dave Tiberi and Drake Thadzi are journeyman and they beat him clearly.

You think he won the first McCallum fight. Ok. It was a draw. I thought McCallum won the second one. As do most. The third one was pointless. He didn't "whoop" McCallum at any point until he was finished.

Dave Tiberi whooped Toney. That's a whooping. McCallum could very easily have won both of those fights with Toney.

Johnson beat him too IMO.

Fact is to say only Roy Jones gave him a run for his money is an outrageous statment.

Fair enough, he was obviously in a lot of battles and lost some too. He's an old school fighter with a storied resume. I believe I was thinking of raw talent too with the rjj comparison, when I wrote that.

I wanted to add though that Toney did test positive for steroids, perhaps we shouldn't forget to weigh this in when looking at his career. I mean it isn't irrelevant.

[bojangles1987]

His skill is vastly overrated because of how flashy he looked. Like, he looked highly skilled when he slipped punches inside and fired back sharp counters or let the one nice combo a round go, but that was his entire game. He didn't move well, couldn't cut off a ring well, didn't have great defense, didn't box off the back foot at any particularly high level, didn't really adjust in the ring. He was very one-dimensional.

He had fast hands and a great chin, but does that make him super talented? Lots of fighters have fast hands and great chins. He had talent, of course, but not this super unlocked potential talent that everywhere pretends he has where he just needed to work harder and he'd be a top 10 ATG.

[bojangles1987]

This thread is ridiculous. You do realize James Toney started at 156 and then fought Samuel Peter who weighed in at 256. So James stood toe to toe with him for 24 rounds.

You can't be just tough to do that. Has anybody in the history of boxing made such a transition. From 156 to 256 and as shot as he is he still hasn't been put away. 100 fights almost fighting the best, never ducking, never holding, never clinching, hitting low, running or head butting.

James Toney is a legend. You'd be praising Bernard Hopkins but Bernard ain't old school like James is old school. Bernard ain't tough or skilled like James is.

Floyd does a shoulder roll but who was the best at it, that's right James Toney. Floyd doesn't really roll his shoulder either. Floyd can't do the shoulder roll properly against southpaws, he tries but it ain't working too much. James would do it against southpaws just as good.

James Toney is the toughest most skilled and talented natural born fighter that boxing has seen. No quit in him, no holding, no head butting, no running, no low blows, fighting everybody out of shape or in shape, beating most people up, fighting small guys, fighting big guys, it didn't matter, southpaws, orthodox fighters, mma fighters, it didn't matter, almost 100 fights, beating people in the Kronk gym, one of the best trash talkers, best chin, ruffed up Deion Sanders.

Toney's shoulder roll isn't remotely close to Mayweather's.

Dude got hit a LOT. Like, by everyone. Fighters who couldn't touch Mayweather beat Toney's ass.