Poll: if an athlete cheated and got away with it does it still count as a legit win?

[Spoon23]

I get you man I know its simple, its just a fine line to me. If I personally saw a guy win but in my opinion he cheated then I would feel inclined to still accept it as a win in my mind because I wouldn't want to let my opinion have too much of an impact on the reality. The reality being the fact that the su****ion is only in my head and I am aware of that.

If there was general widespread su****ion, from fans opinions and reactions all the way up to the boards and the bodies, then I would feel more inclined to disregard it as a complete win, meaning in the books it is a W, but the reality is that everyone should see it as tainted at least.

Like Margarito and his hand wrap scandal in terms of his bout with Cotto. If he never got caught afterwards and I personally had just suspected he had loaded gloves then I would not class it as a NC/no win in my mind, because I wouldn't want to rely just too much on what I thought and take my personal su****ions as gospel. However the reality being that officially it is a win BUT there is that much dirt stuck to that fight from so many angles that we would be wise to leave an asterisk over that win knowing what we know now. Hopefully that makes a little sense man.

Basically, if it is based just on my own personal su****ion and I was aware of that, then I would still class it a W in my mind.

Margarito's case, it was only one red flag. The brick hand wraps were never proven. In Floyd's case, there are actual facts that you can piece together, low Te ratio, 3 failed tests that he had to settle with pacqiao so it wont be divildged in public, low testosterone level found only in sick people or old men and yet he looks Ripped and ready to scrap. IV gate scandal. Etc etc..

margarito to, I'll let it slide, it wasnt that clear cut, but in Floyd's case red flags everywhere. That's the big difference.

In Margarito's case I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but not Floyd. Up to this day He can't even come out for a good reason why he was severely dehydrted and needed ivs. To this day no attending medical physician who administered his ivs would come out and clear the air. If Floyd was clean this, all he can do to clear his name is to find the attending Physician and explain why he was so dehydrated that he can't drink a bottle of pedialiyte, which is even better than 1000 ml of Saline IVS. Oh another red flag the reason he was given a TUE is because he was severely dehydrated.

What is wrong and even more glaringly ****** is that 750ml of Saline and vitamins is not enough to cure a severe case of dehydration. Which he was suppose to be in. Red flag.

Too much red flags.

[Spoon23]

Floyd cheated, my opinion.

Yes Zaroku Floyd cheated. Since he cheated and you said a few pages back it is not a legit win if one cheated and the other didn't and the cheater won unfairly, in your book that's not a win.

Now as you have mentioned in the Floyd Pacquiao fight you believed Floyd cheated. It was also well documented Floyd over paid USADA 150k - red flag

Now knowing that,

Did Pac cheat on that fight with Floyd? If so how did he cheat Zaroku?

We all know, Pac was blood drawn like a vampire ****** him dry by USADA, we also know Pac can't even get a legal shot of Tarodol even if throws tantrums that night. Pac's Gatorade and vitamins was even confiscated in his dressing room.

So how did Pac cheat that night? Explain.

[travestyny]

In Floyd's case, there are actual facts that you can piece together.
low Te ratio,

From the book Doping in Sports
"The median T : E is about 1; however, the values in males who have not used testosterone range from 0.2 to 6.0."

https://books.google.co.kr/books?id=R-hIC-caIn8C&pg=PR7&lpg=PR7&dq=is+the+cream+the+same+as+epitestosterone+masking?&source=bl&ots=39AJORSoi1&sig=HWXGIWU9e-LYAX14mvNDSA9WvBU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFs7SfyrPLAhXlxqYKHXRzCD8Q6AEIUzAJ#v=onepage&q=is%20the%20cream%20the%20same%20as%20epitestosterone%20masking%3F&f=false

3 failed tests that he had to settle with pacqiao so it wont be divildged in public

Is this a fact? Show us the failed tests.
"In July and August of 2012, USADA produced a total of 2,695 pages of documents to representatives for Mr. Pacquiao and Mr. Mayweather in response to the subpoena from Mr. Pacquiao’s legal counsel."
"...in addition to USADA, WADA is notified of all positive test results."

http://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/USADAs-Detailed-Correction-to-SB-Nation-Article-by-Tom-Hauser.pdf

low testosterone level found only in sick people or old men and yet he looks Ripped and ready to scrap.

Victor Conte on Daniel Cormier's below 1 T:E ratios (.42 and .47)
"Daniel’s are normal"
http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Vic...wphzlERwHoo.99

Dr. Christiane Ayotte, the head of the WADA-accredited laboratory in Montreal, saw no problem with Jon Jones' below 1 T/E ratios (.29, .35, .19)
"I read the interviews of 'specialists' on that topic [in MMA media accounts], and, well, I am sorry, but such T/E values are not at all abnormal," she said.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nevada-commission--jon-jones-tests-results-show-no-signs-of-doping-013131428.html

IV gate scandal. Etc etc..

Masking with an IV would have no bearing on the urine and blood tests that were to take place after the fight. Furthermore, a partial urine sample was given from before the IV.

To this day no attending medical physician who administered his ivs would come out and clear the air.

"Under the WADA International Standard for the Protection of Privacy and Personal Information (ISPPPI), TUE applications are treated as confidential information and are not to be disclosed beyond the extent necessary to process the application."

http://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/USADAs-Detailed-Correction-to-SB-Nation-Article-by-Tom-Hauser.pdf

What is wrong and even more glaringly ****** is that 750ml of Saline and vitamins is not enough to cure a severe case of dehydration. Which he was suppose to be in. Red flag.

Is it enough to provide a masking effect for doping tests taking place the next day?

So much for your facts. Next.

[Spoon23]

From the book Doping in Sports
"The median T : E is about 1; however, the values in males who have not used testosterone range from 0.2 to 6.0."

https://books.google.co.kr/books?id=R-hIC-caIn8C&pg=PR7&lpg=PR7&dq=is+the+cream+the+same+as+epitestosterone+masking?&source=bl&ots=39AJORSoi1&sig=HWXGIWU9e-LYAX14mvNDSA9WvBU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFs7SfyrPLAhXlxqYKHXRzCD8Q6AEIUzAJ#v=onepage&q=is%20the%20cream%20the%20same%20as%20epitestosterone%20masking%3F&f=false

Is this a fact? Show us the failed tests.
"In July and August of 2012, USADA produced a total of 2,695 pages of documents to representatives for Mr. Pacquiao and Mr. Mayweather in response to the subpoena from Mr. Pacquiao’s legal counsel."
"...in addition to USADA, WADA is notified of all positive test results."

http://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/USADAs-Detailed-Correction-to-SB-Nation-Article-by-Tom-Hauser.pdf

Victor Conte on Daniel Cormier's below 1 T:E ratios (.42 and .47)
"Daniel’s are normal"
http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Vic...wphzlERwHoo.99

Dr. Christiane Ayotte, the head of the WADA-accredited laboratory in Montreal, saw no problem with Jon Jones' below 1 T/E ratios (.29, .35, .19)
"I read the interviews of 'specialists' on that topic [in MMA media accounts], and, well, I am sorry, but such T/E values are not at all abnormal," she said.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nevada-commission--jon-jones-tests-results-show-no-signs-of-doping-013131428.html

Masking with an IV would have no bearing on the urine and blood tests that were to take place after the fight. Furthermore, a partial urine sample was given from before the IV.



"Under the WADA International Standard for the Protection of Privacy and Personal Information (ISPPPI), TUE applications are treated as confidential information and are not to be disclosed beyond the extent necessary to process the application."

http://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/USADAs-Detailed-Correction-to-SB-Nation-Article-by-Tom-Hauser.pdf

Is it enough to provide a masking effect for doping tests taking place the next day?

So much for your facts. Next.

Pffft.. Empty.. All I see are road blocks of the tapestry of how the truth couldn't come out and Froid was well protected to get away with the scam.

But what you don't get.

Looks at the polls showing boxig fans are convinced Froid is a cheater..

Then continues..

In the court of public opinion. Transparency is the key to absolution. Froid's cheating is littered with cover ups.

Hence, your boy looks so guilty. You can spin it any other way. He will still look guilty unless he explains why he did those. Like why he was dehydrated? Who was the attending physician who diagnosed him? Why he forgot to write in the medical form of nsac he took IVS. Etc etc.

Oh if you want an explanation. My answers to your future questions are in the IV gate thread. Tired of explaining this, especially with someone who has a comprehension disorder.

[travestyny]

Pffft.. Empty.. All I see are road blocks of the tapestry of how the truth couldn't come out and Froid was well protected to get away with the scam.

But what you don't get.

Looks at the polls showing boxig fans are convinced Froid is a cheater..

Then continues..

In the court of public opinion. Transparency is the key to absolution. Froid's cheating is littered with cover ups.

Hence, your boy looks so guilty you can spin it any other way. He will still look guilty.

Oh if you want an explanation. My answers to your future questions are in the IV gate thread. Tired of explaining this, especially with someone so a comprehension disorder.

So let's see. I destroyed your "facts," and your response is: but, but, but...he looks guilty. lol

Way to come back at the merits of my post. Remember, I made you a cheerleader. Nothing more, nothing less. Cheerleader Spoon. You lose, again. Better luck next time.

[Spoon23]

So let's see. I destroyed your "facts," and your response is: but, but, but...he looks guilty. lol

Way to come back at the merits of my post. Remember, I made you a cheerleader. Nothing more, nothing less. Cheerleader Spoon. You lose, again. Better luck next time.

Lol okay.. As if you didn't know I've burned you with facts a long time ago.

Looks at the polls.

# you won't get what I said. Promise.

# comprehension disorder is a biatch hahaha

[travestyny]

Lol okay.. As if you didn't know I've burned you with facts a long time ago.

Looks at the polls.

# you won't get what I said. Promise.

# comprehension disorder is a biatch hahaha

What facts? Do share.

[Spoon23]

What facts? Do share.

Lol you really are that dumb.( look up to my previous post).Told you to go to the IV gate thread. It's all there. Oh I must have forgotten. I've made a conscious effort not to argue with low IQ, low comprehension posters, ehem like you. I will just waste my time going in circles with the likes of you.

Since your red since 2008, almost 9 years no one agreeing with you even your fl0mo kind can't even give you any green. It is only smart to veer away from talking to you.

You my friend has no sense of logic and common sense. You shouldn't even be allowed to write in NSB lol

Once your rep turns green. Hook me up.

That might be the only time you'll be worthy to dance with the big boys!

[travestyny]

Lol you really are that dumb.( look up).Told you to go to the IV gate thread. It's all there. Oh I must have forgotten. I've made a concours effort not to argue with low IQ, low comprehension posters, ehem like you. I will jst waste my tome goingi circles with the likes of you.

Since your red since 2008, almost 9 years no one agreeing with you even your fl0mo kind can't even give you any green. I should veer away from talking to you.

Once your rep turns green. Hook me up.

That's the only time you'll be worthy to dance with the big boys!

ahahahahahah.

Translation: I responded to you at another location (though I really didn't ever respond to the merits of your response...at all), but actually I don't wish to discuss this with you at all.

Well, if that aint a b*tch, I don't know what is. Keep running from me, Cheerleader Spoon. Embarrassing yourself in your own damn thread.

This is very simple. If you don't want to discuss any topic with me based on the merits of my posts, you could keep my name out of your posts. You have some weird kind of obsession with me. Always talking about me in posts, but when I respond to you, you cower away. What's up with that?

[Spoon23]

ahahahahahah.

Translation: I responded to you at another location (though I really didn't ever respond to the merits of your response...at all), but actually I don't wish to discuss this with you at all.

Well, if that aint a b*tch, I don't know what is. Keep running from me, Cheerleader Spoon. Embarrassing yourself in your own damn thread.

This is very simple. If you don't want to discuss any topic with me based on the merits of my posts, you could keep my name out of your posts. You have some weird kind of obsession with me. Always talking about me in posts, but when I respond to you, you cower away. What's up with that?

As I said you won't get even if you try hard enough.

Comprehension disorder is a bad, bad thing hehehe..

Carry on..

# red since 2008 lol