Comments Thread For: Golden Boy's Lawsuit Against Al Haymon Enters Discovery Phase

[original zero]

Again in Sept when all the TV deals were in place they were putting out 9 shows in 1 month. So why are the amount of shows dwindling each month since last fall?

Because the plan was to over saturate the market to raise awareness of the brand as quickly as possible. After that initial barrage, you pull back and focus on tent pole events. This is a very common tactic when launching a new brand.

[Eff Pandas]

It's going to be hard to prove Haymon is both manger and promoter, since Haymon (PBC) always has a promoter for his fighters' events, and Oscar used to be one of them!

Exactly. Some of the logic jumps you gotta make to believe Haymon is actually a promoter are nuts & oddly enough could make an argument for Oscar outfit being one of the "sham promoters". Maybe thats the smoking guy or something idk. Oscar will admit he nor Richard were promoting & it was really Haymon the whole time.

I think the biggest problem with this lawsuit for the anti-PBC people is its probably gonna take years to get this all decided once & for all & its most likely outcome will be an out of court settlement in 2018 or something like that.

Hell Arum might be dead or unable to continue his work with TR soon & Todd Arum or whatever his name is, who seems more like a numbers guy, could end in 100% control of TR & could end this lawsuit & work with PBC seeing the upside in a relationship with them like Eddie Hearn has, assuming PBC continues to be around & growing. I think Oscar is too girl-ish to ever let something go so I doubt that happens with their lawsuit with Haymon/PBC.

[bigdunny1]

Because the plan was to over saturate the market to raise awareness of the brand as quickly as possible. After that initial barrage, you pull back and focus on tent pole events. This is a very common tactic when launching a new brand.

That's BS because if the plan was just to pull back then why were all these fights announced LAST fall as PBC fights in the first place only to see them one by one go to Showtime? Also if this was the plan then WHY prepay for dozens of fights dates across multiple networks that you are not going to use in 2016? That sounds like a massive waste of millions but hey maybe that's why financial reports are so bad for PBC investors. And how are Haymon guys fighting under Showtime helping the PBC brand awareness? lol

[bigdunny1]

Exactly. Some of the logic jumps you gotta make to believe Haymon is actually a promoter are nuts & oddly enough could make an argument for Oscar outfit being one of the "sham promoters". Maybe thats the smoking guy or something idk. Oscar will admit he nor Richard were promoting & it was really Haymon the whole time.

I think the biggest problem with this lawsuit for the anti-PBC people is its probably gonna take years to get this all decided once & for all & its most likely outcome will be an out of court settlement in 2018 or something like that.

Hell Arum might be dead or unable to continue his work with TR soon & Todd Arum or whatever his name is, who seems more like a numbers guy, could end in 100% control of TR & could end this lawsuit & work with PBC seeing the upside in a relationship with them like Eddie Hearn has, assuming PBC continues to be around & growing. I think Oscar is too girl-ish to ever let something go so I doubt that happens with their lawsuit with Haymon/PBC.

The longer this drags on the more it hurts Haymon NOT GB or TR. In the meantime while it drags Haymon has to disclose PBC documents and private information to his competitors. And lawsuits like this likely will scare off PBC from getting more investment money. For example a report 2 weeks ago was that PBC is hemorrhaging money and already blown through most of their cash and is trying to convince Waddell to double down on their investment with promises of cutting costs to try and make this thing work. If these lawsuits are going to drag on for another year or 2 can't see how that helps PBC to convince it's investors who already lost hundreds of millions because of PBC to dump more money into this. The domino effects of this dragging on hurts PBC not GB or TR.

[OnePunch]

Exactly. Some of the logic jumps you gotta make to believe Haymon is actually a promoter are nuts & oddly enough could make an argument for Oscar outfit being one of the "sham promoters". Maybe thats the smoking guy or something idk. Oscar will admit he nor Richard were promoting & it was really Haymon the whole time.

I think the biggest problem with this lawsuit for the anti-PBC people is its probably gonna take years to get this all decided once & for all & its most likely outcome will be an out of court settlement in 2018 or something like that.

Hell Arum might be dead or unable to continue his work with TR soon & Todd Arum or whatever his name is, who seems more like a numbers guy, could end in 100% control of TR & could end this lawsuit & work with PBC seeing the upside in a relationship with them like Eddie Hearn has, assuming PBC continues to be around & growing. I think Oscar is too girl-ish to ever let something go so I doubt that happens with their lawsuit with Haymon/PBC.

Here's a little "fact salad" for you to chew on.......


Fact: The Ali Act prohibits a "manager" from having a financial interest in the promotion of a fighter.

Fact: Haymon is a licensed "manager" in Nevada, and several other states

Fact: Haymon has a financial interest in PBC events

Fact: The licensed "promoters" Haymon hires are paid a flat fee and have no financial interest in the promotion.


Now if you think those facts are "nuts", then there is no reason to continue the discussion because obviously you have decided to NOT be objective about it......

[Scipio2009]

Yep -- but also the McMahon took it national by approaching local stations and buying airtime. Was fairly ambitious and he was thought to be ludicrous. Worked out pretty well.

McMahon took it national by buying up everyone else's top talent, focusing on his New York market first, and then taking things national; if he hadn't had the "foresight" to poach the AWA's budding top star, Hulk Hogan, the entire effort wouldn't have worked.

If Haymon, by some stroke of genius, was able to work out a deal to bring 'Canelo' Alvarez into his fold (sparking an out-and-out raiding fight between all of the promoters outside of the PBC/Showtime fold), the WWF comparison would work better, imo.

[IMDAZED]

McMahon took it national by buying up everyone else's top talent, focusing on his New York market first, and then taking things national; if he hadn't had the "foresight" to poach the AWA's budding top star, Hulk Hogan, the entire effort wouldn't have worked.

If Haymon, by some stroke of genius, was able to work out a deal to bring 'Canelo' Alvarez into his fold (sparking an out-and-out raiding fight between all of the promoters outside of the PBC/Showtime fold), the WWF comparison would work better, imo.

Seems like he may not even have to since he managed to land a fight against Canelo with one of his fighters. Of course it's almost like a sacrifice. Unless Khan does the impossible and wins

[Scipio2009]

The longer this drags on the more it hurts Haymon NOT GB or TR. In the meantime while it drags Haymon has to disclose PBC documents and private information to his competitors. And lawsuits like this likely will scare off PBC from getting more investment money. For example a report 2 weeks ago was that PBC is hemorrhaging money and already blown through most of their cash and is trying to convince Waddell to double down on their investment with promises of cutting costs to try and make this thing work. If these lawsuits are going to drag on for another year or 2 can't see how that helps PBC to convince it's investors who already lost hundreds of millions because of PBC to dump more money into this. The domino effects of this dragging on hurts PBC not GB or TR.

What documents are actually eligible to be disclosed, in either lawsuit?

Top Rank, with Waddell and Reed, and Caldwell explicitly removed from the talks, can arguably only call on documents involving Haymon-DiBella/TGB/Warriors/GYM/MayweatherPromotions/Matchroom/etc, Haymon-managers, and maybe Haymon-TV talks.

Golden Boy, with their lawsuit already shaved down to only include PBC information, can't look to any documents before the February PBC start.

Trying to spin that "PBC is begging for more money" nonsense without any actual story is also rich, lol.

While the case toils in court, Golden Boy(without Schaefer's money men backing the effort) is still going to have to pay out a massive settlement to All Star Boxing(for stealing Canelo) and Top Rank, with Pacquiao likely walking out of the door, will have to toil through things without an actual bankable star and a TV partner(HBO) only offering them half the TV dates then what they've grown accustomed to working with.

Two years is a long time.

[Scipio2009]

Here's a little "fact salad" for you to chew on.......


Fact: The Ali Act prohibits a "manager" from having a financial interest in the promotion of a fighter.

Fact: Haymon is a licensed "manager" in Nevada, and several other states

Fact: Haymon has a financial interest in PBC events

Fact: The licensed "promoters" Haymon hires are paid a flat fee and have no financial interest in the promotion.


Now if you think those facts are "nuts", then there is no reason to continue the discussion because obviously you have decided to NOT be objective about it......

-The Ali Act prohibits a manager from working on behalf of a promoter, collecting a second check on the promotional side of the fighter's fight. To try and argue that a fighter and his manager can't put a fight is laughable.

-'PBC' is a televised property that airs fight cards.

Please read the Ali Act and the conditions that prompted the drafting of the Ali Act in the first place.

The Ali Act was never written to protect fight promoters; it was written to give fighters insurances that they wouldn't be ****ed by shiesty dealings of fight promoters.

The statute is publicly available for anyone to read; try it for once.

[OnePunch]

-The Ali Act prohibits a manager from working on behalf of a promoter, collecting a second check on the promotional side of the fighter's fight. To try and argue that a fighter and his manager can't put a fight is laughable.

-'PBC' is a televised property that airs fight cards.

Please read the Ali Act and the conditions that prompted the drafting of the Ali Act in the first place.

The Ali Act was never written to protect fight promoters; it was written to give fighters insurances that they wouldn't be ****ed by shiesty dealings of fight promoters.

The statute is publicly available for anyone to read; try it for once.

Ive read it, and operated under it for over a decade. YOU seem to be the one with the reading comprehension problems, as Section 5, Paragraph 2, sub paragraph B, item (i) states it is UNLAWFUL for a MANAGER to have "a direct or indirect financial interest in the promotion of a boxer"


Im not sure how much clearer that sentence needs to be, to where even "challenged" people (as you obviously are) can grasp the concept......