Comments Thread For: Golden Boy's Lawsuit Against Al Haymon Enters Discovery Phase

[Sweet Jones]

^^^look at this fool.

-the reddit post, by an anonymous guy who was "tracking the money"(while getting flamed out in the comments in the original post, as people started to ask questions about what was said), is now being spun into "numerous reports".

-if you actually click on the cited link, you get chased to a ****ing troll site; no different than when, late night, you see those law offices chasing down folks who may have had some tangential connection to asbestos.

gtfoh

Exactly. This dude keeps posting a link to a website where they are soliciting folks to sue dayum near every investment house in the country. Click any of the 'Brokeage Firms' links on the left and you will see they have boilerplate language begging folks to holler at them about a potential suit.

Fuggin' hilarious that bigdunny1 is banking all his hope on a pink socked, ambulance chaser:

[bigdunny1]

Exactly. This dude keeps posting a link to a website where they are soliciting folks to sue dayum near every investment house in the country. Click any of the 'Brokeage Firms' links on the left and you will see they have boilerplate language begging folks to holler at them about a potential suit.

Fuggin' hilarious that bigdunny1 is banking all his hope on a pink socked, ambulance chaser:

A NY investment fraud Atty compiling claims against Waddell & Reed told me the @premierboxing losses are part of potential class action suit

— Lance Pugmire (@latimespugmire) February 5, 2016

The NY Atty told me these are "mom and pop individual investors, not institutions, damaged by investments," to @premierboxing

— Lance Pugmire (@latimespugmire) February 5, 2016

LA TIMES reported this and spoke with the lawyers. Unless you are calling Lance Pugmire a liar? The same LA Times that were first to report that Golden Boy was putting together a huge lawsuit against PBC last year. They broke that story weeks if not months before the lawsuit actually was filed and they were dead on in their reporting last year so yes I'll take huge stock in them over some idiots online saying everything is going great. And if PBC's investors didn't have huge losses last year then why are lawyers soliciting people for a class act lawsuit in the first place? Because their last quarter fiances which they have to report were so bad that folks lost millions. When that much money is lost guys get fired and lawsuits get filed. The president of Waddell is already being forced out but I guess that's just another coincident too couldn't possible have to do with these losses that even the CEO acknowledged.

[Eff Pandas]

Here's a little "fact salad" for you to chew on.......


Fact: The Ali Act prohibits a "manager" from having a financial interest in the promotion of a fighter.

Fact: Haymon is a licensed "manager" in Nevada, and several other states

Fact: Haymon has a financial interest in PBC events

Fact: The licensed "promoters" Haymon hires are paid a flat fee and have no financial interest in the promotion.


Now if you think those facts are "nuts", then there is no reason to continue the discussion because obviously you have decided to NOT be objective about it......

The rest of your "facts" I've debated with a dozen cats a dozen times in a dozen different threads so I don't got a whole lot of desire to do so again, but feel free to link the bolded so called "fact". I don't believe anyone has the entire details of how Haymon is doing business so if they've been detailed somewhere by a respected source and I missed them I'd love to read about them.

[Rich2123]

I don't believe anyone has the entire details of how Haymon is doing business so if they've been detailed somewhere by a respected source and I missed them I'd love to read about them.

I am pretty sure they are not out there. Most news about PBC is educated guesses or coming from the fighters who wouldn't know about this kind of stuff.

I have read people saying that these suits just getting to discovery is a win for Golden Boy and Top Rank, because this is really the only way they're going to find out some of these details about what they are up against.

And that's because no one really knows what is up with PBC.

[original zero]

That's BS because if the plan was just to pull back then why were all these fights announced LAST fall as PBC fights in the first place only to see them one by one go to Showtime? Also if this was the plan then WHY prepay for dozens of fights dates across multiple networks that you are not going to use in 2016? That sounds like a massive waste of millions but hey maybe that's why financial reports are so bad for PBC investors. And how are Haymon guys fighting under Showtime helping the PBC brand awareness? lol

If you'd like to have a productive conversation, drop some of the attitude and maybe we can have a pleasant chat.

PBC and Showtime are starting to blur the lines between the two. It's been an awkward dance because Haymon couldn't create the leverage he needed without bringing fighters to NBCU, but if he didn't give Viacom enough fights to keep them happy, he risked another entity ending up with control of the Showtime dates.

So it's been a very delicate process to try to prove to Viacom to invest a lot more in boxing than they used to, but to not completely burn that bridge in the process as the only way to prove it was to take some fights elsewhere.

As for why you would "prepay for dozens of fight dates across multiple networks that you are not going to use," Haymon is far more clever than you give him credit for. He'll end up using the dates that he pre-paid for, but the amount of guaranteed dates is far less than what was announced.

So he managed to lock up all of these networks for deals that were "up to" X amount of shows, but he'll never come close to the maximum number of dates he has the right to buy. He'll buy the absolute minimum allowed by the contract, while still managing to lock everybody else out.

So he has the right to buy a dozen dates a year on ESPN, chooses to only buy a few, yet in the process locks out all of the promoters that were getting dates on Friday Night Fights. It's actually brilliant.

Haymon guys fighting under Showtime doesn't push the PBC brand as much, which is why at first he needed to over saturate the market with PBC to establish the brand. But whatever money Showtime is paying for boxing, he'd be an idiot not to take that money and to let that money go to somebody else instead. He needs to make sure everyone else is trapped on HBO's island with no alternative.

[Scipio2009]

well thats what discovery is for, genius.


But humor me. If Haymon doesnt get the ticket / ad revenue, then exactly who does? Now granted, they do give away ALOT of tickets, but there are some that they actually get money for. So who do you think that money goes to? The tooth fairy? And where does the Corona money go? hmmmmmmmm

Its always amusing when some noob who hasnt had 5 minutes of experience in the boxing business tries to tell me whats what. Brightens up an otherwise dull day......lol

How are tickets generally spilt up, Mr Promoter? The venue gets a cut of the tickets, the interested parties (fighters, promoters) get a share of the tickets, and a ticket seller (Ticketmaster) gets a share of the tickets; seems to be the general rule of thumb.

Not that difficult to see; for a person who claims to be a promoter, it's shocking that you earnestly believe that a manager/adviser pockets all of the gate.

[Mitchell Kane]

Paul Gift is covering the GBP/Haymon stuff with a lot of updates on twiter the last couple days, figured might as well just put them all in here instead of scattered in other threads...

Paul Gift @MMAanalytics
Just saw list of expert witnesses in Golden Boy/Haymon antitrust lawsuit. Haymon's economist is reputable. Never heard of Golden Boy's guy.

Paul Gift @MMAanalytics
Here's Gary Shaw's take in his expert report for Golden Boy on Al Haymon's business model.

Paul Gift @MMAanalytics
Kerry Davis seems to have been hired by Al Haymon to rebut Gary Shaw's report for Golden Boy. Here's summary of Davis' opinions. #boxing

Paul Gift @MMAanalytics
Al Haymon's filed for Summary Judgment vs. Golden Boy in L.A. Here's prob where he's going w being promoter. Oscar de la Hoya's depo #boxing

Paul Gift @MMAanalytics
From Al Haymon's deposition. He recently rescinded the promotional agreements contract restriction. Would seem to mean 1(c)3, too.

Paul Gift @MMAanalytics
Al Haymon uses Canelo-Khan, Castellanos-Escandon, May-Pac & a few others to argue that he doesn't only consent to "sham" promoters.

Paul Gift @MMAanalytics
Seems Haymon's story will be he doesn't like GB's long-term contracts: GB can cancel, 1 yr first refusal, possible 2yr extensions & this:

Paul Gift @MMAanalytics
Haymon also declares he's waived TV exclusivity w NBC, FOX, CBS, ESPN & Spike and waived manager/advisor commissions for boxers in PBC bouts


Paul Gift @MMAanalytics
Haymon's argues no evidence of tie or coercion, no mkt power as manager or promoter, #PBC increased output, dealt w/ GB. If fails ➡️ trial.

[Mitchell Kane]

Paul Gift
11m11 minutes ago
Paul Gift @MMAanalytics
From Al Haymon's own expert witness: "Haymon has lost substantially more money than the hundreds of millions of dollars he anticipated..."

https://mobile.twitter.com/MMAanalytics/status/793632330841595905/photo/1

[Mitchell Kane]

Paul Gift @MMAanalytics
From Al Haymon's own expert witness: "Haymon has lost substantially more money than the hundreds of millions of dollars he anticipated..."

Paul Gift @MMAanalytics
Paul Gift Retweeted Paul Gift
Speaking of hundreds of mil. Fair value of alleged W&R investments into Haymon en****** including #PBC on 9/30: $152.2M Value, $773.1M Loss

Paul Gift @MMAanalytics 5h
Guesstimated a new 9/30 fair value in the "$200 million range" in this piece. Boy was I wrong. $152.2.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2016/9/20...bc-boxing-news

[Mitchell Kane]

A Galván @TheOnlySanch
Wadell & Reed 10k is out and the lawsuit from investors against them involving Ivy fund and Haymon will have oral arguments on Nov 10

https://twitter.com/TheOnlySanch/status/794689083956076544

FightOpinion @FightOpinion
FightOpinion Retweeted A Galván
November 10th is the motion to dismiss hearing in Kansas. I've called this lawsuit the python strategy to choke out Haymon's cash.

FightOpinion @FightOpinion
I will have two major articles on Al Haymon in the next couple of weeks. I'm having to dot the I's and cross T's legally...