who among suspected PED user got away the most: Pacquaio, Mayweather or Marquez?

[Zaroku]

Both Floyd and PAC are retired.
Same crap on an old topic.

[travestyny]

This is a laugh!

In another thread you posted like as if you spoke to Manny's doctor and knew extensively about Manny's situations about his much more complicated injury.

Yea, it was so hard for us to see that he had no pain and didn't stop using his right hand. If the doctor wanted to speak up, he could have released the MRI because no one believes him. No one is that dumb to believe he really had an injury except his fans. And why did he lie?

You think that every doctor knows about TUE and prohibited substances? Sorry but they tell the athlete to not play dumb and that the athlete must understand.

This is a waste of time to discuss. Yes, the athlete will be the one that is ultimately penalized if something is not done the right way. This is common knowledge, homie. WADA specifically asks a physician to provide proof of the need for the TUE. So what is so hard to understand? You just wasted your time putting together all of that for no reason.

You missed this part of my post when you responded!!!

Um, no I didn't. You must have missed where a TUE isn't necessary for IV's based on NSACs rules, so this is a moot point you are trying to make. Try again.

Hmmm, are you ashamed to be speculating like you did today about Manny's injury?

Not at all. He was caught in a blatant lie about it. You don't want to discuss that. He never stopped throwing the right. You don't want to discuss that. He never mentioned it in the ring. You don't want to discuss that. He never winced in pain. You don't want to discuss that. What's your feelings about all this, huh?

I presented the facts and my knowledge on dehydration. On this subject you do not need to be an expert compared to knowing about rotator cuff injuries. Yet you were able to solve the Manny riddle!!!

Have you disproven hyponatremia? Have you? Yes or no?

DCO monitored for what? You keep on saying that only a qualified doctor can understand all this dehydration stuff and we both know that the DCO is not qualified.

Did you even read what I wrote? I explained why the DCO was there monitoring. How did I lose you on something so simple?

Again, today you based your comments only on pictures of Manny. Yet with all the facts available on Floyd, you call that zero proof and just speculation. HA!

Wrong? Who told you I based it on pictures. I based it on his slimy team and him blatantly being caught in lies, and the evidence that he never stopped throwing an arm with a severely torn rotator cuff in a professional boxing match. He never even winced in pain. This is not rocket science.

I'm unaware? Is that what you said when you quoted Manny? I quoted Floyd but now you want to say that is different? HA!!! So Manny is an expert in respect to rotator cuff injuries? Like I said, dehydration is much more known to an athlete as it is something that they think about constantly and how not to get dehydrated. Plus, Floyd had Dr Ariza that helped him on how to rehydrate with an IV professionally!!!

What are you even talking about? I quoted Manny. He said he had a torn rotator cuff. You are free to quote Mayweather. He said he was dehydrated. What is your point?

If your response was Dr Ariza, you win!!!

Floyd thanked Dr Ariza and you know it!

Again, what exactly is your point? Did you disprove he had acute or chronic dehydration? Did you disprove that he experienced a condition that would allow an IV to be more effective than oral rehydration? Nope. Not at all. When are you going to learn?

So you still want to bring up chronic? Why? This has nothing to do with Floyd!!!

Again, you don't like this because you know you can't disprove it.

Secondly, what does that statement you posted have to do with anything?

Third point is they even mention the word "POTENTIAL".

I do not want to insult you but just think of what that word means? It means that the athlete does NOT have currently a chronic medical condition but is capable of having!!!

Don't play dumb. I highlighted the word "potential" myself so you would know that the condition only need to be potentially chronic, which speaks even more against your position. And as I said even before I found that paper, THE TUE COULD BE GRANTED FOR A CHRONIC CONDITION WHEN THAT CONDITION IS FIRST DIAGNOSED. I can't put this any more clearly to you. You just don't like it because you have nothing now.

When are you going to address this and admit that you were wrong?:
"In situations of medical emergency or clinical time constraints, a retroactive TUE application is acceptable (ISTUE 2015 article 4.3)"

When are you going to admit that you were wrong that a TUE can be granted for a chronic medical condition when it is first diagnosed?:

"When a potentially chronic medical condition is first diagnosed, it may be advisable to grant a TUE for a shorter period until the medical regime is stabilized."

You are blatantly ducking this by just saying it doesn't apply to Floyd with no proof. I wonder why your tune has changed, because you weren't saying that before, were you?

It's all right there from WADA. Do you admit you were wrong? Step up!

[Dosumpthin]

Like I said, WADA has the option to look at TUEs but its not mandatory like when a request is on a rejected TUE (some exceptions here too)


So you believe that Floyd was dehydrated to the point that he required an IV and based all that on WADA not reversing the approved TUE when WADA more than likely did not even look at it? YIKES!!!!

Let me clarify my position.

Given the current facts I am aware of - I believe it was justifiably the preferred choice -* my opinion is based on the facts (insert: and is) supported by wadas inaction against the tue.*

My opinion is : Floyd did not use the iv illegally nor did he use it to mask peds.

My opinion is based on : the facts regarding Floyd's iv use. USADA approved it. Understanding of WADA istue rules and how it applies. Floyd provided a sample prior and after use iv. Floyd passed all test.

My opinion is supported by (affirmed by) : wadas inaction - or better yet - WADA not reversing USADA tuec desicion.
NSAC and USADA publicly cleared Floyd of any wrongdoing.


Your opinion is : Floyd should not have been approved for the IV and he used the IV to mask ped use.

Your opinion is based on : Thomas Hauser articles. Speculation. Rumors. Misinformation (admitted by Hauser himself). Misinterpreted WADA rules by ignoring the meaning of "or". Thomas Hauser asking questions and you thinking they are factual statements.

Your opinion is supported by: polls. Spoon/Rath. An overall distrust of Floyd. Conspiracy theories. Floyd's weight.

[ADP02]

it was so hard for us to see that he had no pain and didn't stop using his right hand. If the doctor wanted to speak up, he could have released the MRI because no one believes him. No one is that dumb to believe he really had an injury except his fans. And why did he lie?

This has turned comical.

Manny at least had his doctor come out with a statement that confirmed that Manny had an injury and that there was a significant tear. Doctor also stated that surgery was required. Finally, Floyd fans who said its a lie said he was going to come back and fight months later. Manny was out for a year.

With Floyd, all we hear is Floyd praising Dr Ariza. No doctor came forth and nothing to make us believe that he was truly dehydrated to the point that an IV was required. Why are you not calling out Floyd?

Now what I said about other Floyd fans you are doing.

You now want to see an MRI or else its not true YET I have been telling you forever that we have plenty of information on Floyd not being severely dehydrated and he came out with NOTHING yet you talk differently when it comes to Floyd.

For you, Manny is guilty until he shows you an MRI while Floyd is innocent until you see his doctor and his note. WOW!!! Like I said, comical!!!

Yes, the athlete will be the one that is ultimately penalized if something is not done the right way. WADA specifically asks a physician to provide proof of the need for the TUE. So what is so hard to understand? You just wasted your time putting together all of that for no reason. !

This was about Floyd having to know everything about what is going into him and why. That is why I listed all those things and it came from WADA not me! You keep on having Floyd be one of the dumbest athletes around but WADA does not buy that kind of talk.

Here is more .....
WADA
"Question: If my team doctor prescribes me medicine and I test positive as a result it is his/her fault, not mine?
Answer: False.
Explanation: Your doctor may be sanctioned for giving you bad advice and unsuitable treatment, but you should trust no-one but yourself when it comes to what you put in or on your body. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT YOU TAKE!"

Um, no I didn't. You must have missed where a TUE isn't necessary for IV's based on NSACs rules, so this is a moot point you are trying to make.

Wrong. This has nothing to do with what you are talking about.

What that means is that USADA cannot be the one handing out TUE approvals in the state of Nevada. PERIOD. They cannot and therefore should not. The NSAC said that they told USADA on multiple occasions. The job for approving TUEs in the state of Nevada goes to the NSAC. WADA gives examples of this where it is not always the ADO that hands out the approvals. Other organizations may have the authority over the ADO.

Not at all. He was caught in a blatant lie about it. You don't want to discuss that. He never stopped throwing the right. You don't want to discuss that. He never mentioned it in the ring. You don't want to discuss that. He never winced in pain. You don't want to discuss that. What's your feelings about all this?

Do not want to discuss? That is what I am doing and called you out on this! Call it what you want but to me that is being hypocritical of you.

Sorry but you are talking differently with Manny compared to Floyd. For you, Floyd was dumb but Manny lied. That is your line. HA! No, you should be ashamed because you should have stayed consistent about Manny just like you said about Floyd BUT you didn't! HA!

Have you disproven hyponatremia?

Again, you went there, so you need to say why you think that is the case .... but all that you are doing is trying to find a loophole.

Why are you not saying, "Floyd, why did you praise Dr Ariza? You are lying to us. You are guilty until you show us real proof?" Think like you think when you discuss Manny! HA!

Did you even read what I wrote? I explained why the DCO was there monitoring. How did I lose you on something so simple?!

The DCO monitoring is like saying that you monitored the whole thing but as you pointed out on other points, the DCO is not a qualified doctor so what does he know what is really going on? All he is doing is watching but he is not a qualified doctor so anything could have been done right under his nose and he would not even know it.

Then people like you come back and say "But the DCO was monitoring the whole thing"

Wrong? Who told you I based it on pictures. I based it on his slimy team and him blatantly being caught in lies, and the evidence that he never stopped throwing an arm with a severely torn rotator cuff in a professional boxing match. He never even winced in pain. This is not rocket science. !

I'm talking about you bringing up the comment that you did not see the red mark on his shoulder until the 6th round. So you were saying that it therefore must have happened later than the 3rd or 4th round. All of a sudden, you do not need Manny's doctor to come to your conclusions.


Floyd: "Giving blood (10 days before) contributed to my severe dehydration"
Floyd: "Giving urine contributed to my severe dehydration"

Comical .... just go back and remember all you said on Floyd's comments.
For you, its different. Floyd is too dumb to know even after the fact what he felt and had but Manny, that is different.


Floyd's weight was relatively the same. His natural weight, weigh in weight, fight night weight ..... Floyd went on record and said that he makes 147 easily because that is pretty much his walking weight!!!

Yet, you cannot put 1 + 1 together. It must be something else. HA!!!

What are you even talking about? I quoted Manny. He said he had a torn rotator cuff. You are free to quote Mayweather. He said he was dehydrated. What is your point? !

What is my point?

Floyd was extremely dehydrated and it was resolved because of someone who helped him resolve this. Floyd then thanked the doctor who helped him rehydrate, as a professional athlete should.

Who was this mystery guy? Floyd admitted who the doctor was...... Dr Ariza.

Again, what exactly is your point? Did you disprove he had acute or chronic dehydration? Did you disprove that he experienced a condition that would allow an IV to be more effective than oral rehydration?

I highlighted the word "potential" myself so you would know that the condition only need to be potentially chronic, which speaks even more against your position. And as I said even before I found that paper, THE TUE COULD BE GRANTED FOR A CHRONIC CONDITION WHEN THAT CONDITION IS FIRST DIAGNOSED. I can't put this any more clearly to you. You just don't like it because you have nothing now.

When are you going to address this and admit that you were wrong?:
"In situations of medical emergency or clinical time constraints, a retroactive TUE application is acceptable (ISTUE 2015 article 4.3)"

When are you going to admit that you were wrong that a TUE can be granted for a chronic medical condition when it is first diagnosed?:

"When a potentially chronic medical condition is first diagnosed, it may be advisable to grant a TUE for a shorter period until the medical regime is stabilized."

You are blatantly ducking this by just saying it doesn't apply to Floyd with no proof. I wonder why your tune has changed, because you weren't saying that before, were you?

It's all right there from WADA. Do you admit you were wrong? Step up!

Sorry but its not me but you that is playing dumb. Everything points to Floyd shouldn't have been allowed to have an IV. Floyd admitted to you what he had. Go check like you checked Manny's comments and provide those links of what Floyd said. Floyd had a chance to retract his statement but instead he doubled down and

Floyd said he was "extremely dehydrated"

Why? "I worked out hard against Manny. I always do"
who helped him with resolving his "extreme dehydration".

"I have to thank Dr Alex Ariza for showing me how an athlete should rehydrate in a professional manner"




Again, I asked you why you even brought this up? Of course they give TUEs for chronic medical conditions. I never said they didn't.

Where you lose me is when you bring up acute medical conditions and call them chronic. Like the example of a guy not having something for 15 years ..... then all of a sudden the condition comes back .... sorry but that point in time, it is called an acute medical condition that may or may not meet the criteria to warrant a TUE.

An athlete can have an acute medical condition they try to stabilize the athlete and give him his required medication. This condition can be potentially a chronic medical condition ..... and?

Finally, the over-arching rule is that the athlete's health comes first. If the athlete's condition is exacerbated and warrants quick medical treatment then of course the athlete will get treated. I said this from day 1.


Its time you start calling out Floyd like you do with others. One comment that is not right and he should be considered guilty until proven otherwise! HA!

[ADP02]

QUESTION: With the current information that you have, do you think that Floyd was dehydrated to the point that an IV was a must?

.

The above was my question and the below statement was your response!

Given the current facts I am aware of - I believe it was justifiably the preferred choice -* my opinion is based on the facts supported by wadas inaction against the tue.*

[COLOR="DarkRed"]That's common sense.[/COLOR]

Let me clarify my position.

Given the current facts I am aware of - I believe it was justifiably the preferred choice -* my opinion is based on the facts (insert: and is) supported by wadas inaction against the tue.*

My opinion is : Floyd did not use the iv illegally nor did he use it to mask peds.

My opinion is based on : the facts regarding Floyd's iv use. USADA approved it. Understanding of WADA istue rules and how it applies. Floyd provided a sample prior and after use iv. Floyd passed all test.

My opinion is supported by (affirmed by) : wadas inaction - or better yet - WADA not reversing USADA tuec desicion.
NSAC and USADA publicly cleared Floyd of any wrongdoing.


Your opinion is : Floyd should not have been approved for the IV and he used the IV to mask ped use.

Your opinion is based on : Thomas Hauser articles. Speculation. Rumors. Misinformation (admitted by Hauser himself). Misinterpreted WADA rules by ignoring the meaning of "or". Thomas Hauser asking questions and you thinking they are factual statements.

Your opinion is supported by: polls. Spoon/Rath. An overall distrust of Floyd. Conspiracy theories. Floyd's weight.

1) It is optional for WADA to even review it. Yet you based it on WADA! HA!

2) You based it on a test where Floyd drank and had an IV! HA!

3) You based it on USADA but USADA is not the one who is supposed to be approving TUEs in the state of Nevada. The NSAC has said that they are the sole authority in approving TUEs in the state of Nevada and had told this to USADA on multiple occasions .....

So USADA already made a mistake right here

4) You check out USADA and they allow giving TUEs for IVs in areas where WADA says differently.

So that makes 2 mistakes by USADA

5) Where USADA and Floyd is concerned, there is an issue in that Floyd got USADA into the door (boxing) and Floyd's representatives is paying USADA big money.

6) USADA used to call that unethical when Lance's representatives used to pay for PEDs testing purposes but now its different when Floyd gives it to USADA?

7) Your opinion is based on nothing but USADA and another organization that more than likely reviewed NOTHING!.

- USADA is who we have a big issue with.
- The NSAC had a big issue with USADA.
- Going back to what USADA said about Lance (point 5 and 6 above), USADA should be having a big issue with USADA!!!


You have not a single shred of evidence. Nothing.

Floyd's statements are lies and do not add up. How can Floyd be extremely dehydrated when his weight is stable for 30 days! More since Floyd admitted that is his walking weight! Floyd had an opportunity to drink and you witnessed it!


.

[Zaroku]

The above was my question and the below statement was your response!








1) It is optional for WADA to even review it. Yet you based it on WADA! HA!

2) You based it on a test where Floyd drank and had an IV! HA!

3) You based it on USADA but USADA is not the one who is supposed to be approving TUEs in the state of Nevada. The NSAC has said that they are the sole authority in approving TUEs in the state of Nevada and had told this to USADA on multiple occasions .....

So USADA already made a mistake right here

4) You check out USADA and they allow giving TUEs for IVs in areas where WADA says differently.

So that makes 2 mistakes by USADA

5) Where USADA and Floyd is concerned, there is an issue in that Floyd got USADA into the door (boxing) and Floyd's representatives is paying USADA big money.

6) USADA used to call that unethical when Lance's representatives used to pay for PEDs testing purposes but now its different when Floyd gives it to USADA?

7) Your opinion is based on nothing but USADA and another organization that more than likely reviewed NOTHING!.

- USADA is who we have a big issue with.
- The NSAC had a big issue with USADA.
- Going back to what USADA said about Lance (point 5 and 6 above), USADA should be having a big issue with USADA!!!


You have not a single shred of evidence. Nothing.

Floyd's statements are lies and do not add up. How can Floyd be extremely dehydrated when his weight is stable for 30 days! More since Floyd admitted that is his walking weight! Floyd had an opportunity to drink and you witnessed it!


.

Your posts are long and unreadable. They are both retired. Is this your life's work??

Back to work.

[ADP02]

Your posts are long and unreadable. They are both retired. Is this your life's work??

Back to work.

Manny just had a fight.

I can do more than one thing during my day. Sometimes I'm too busy to post or post often. Sometimes I just read ......

As for my post, it was in response to a post directed at me. Some do get long but it is what it is ....

[Zaroku]

Manny just had a fight.

I can do more than one thing during my day. Sometimes I'm too busy to post or post often. Sometimes I just read ......

As for my post, it was in response to a post directed at me. Some do get long but it is what it is ....

On my train headed home. Friday Tokyo time.

I need a giant I phone, to read all those back and forth exchanges.

It seems that nothing you have presented has had any impact. I have no idea where we are in that debate.

[ADP02]

On my train headed home. Friday Tokyo time.

I need a giant I phone, to read all those back and forth exchanges.

It seems that nothing you have presented has had any impact. I have no idea where we are in that debate.

Debate: The comical part is that some of the Floyd fans who kept on saying that they have to first read what that doctor wrote on that BS retroactive TUE before they can "really" judge BUT they have been caught in other threads doing the opposite.

That is, for Manny they have enough evidence to throw away the key! Floyd fans have all of a sudden become doctors and want to see an MRI and until then, they are saying that Manny never had an injury. HA!

There are other threads that pop up now that do the same. Like you, they say that they are retired so stop talking about it but just last week the same Floyd posters, like LarryXXX, start a thread to prove to us that Manny never had surgery and his proof was a picture of Manny ... but a poster proved him wrong.

In summary, the same posters are not consistent. For Floyd they are looking for a loophole while for Manny there is enough proof to judge that he had no injury ..... Comical!

[travestyny]

This has turned comical.

Yep, it has turned comical. Let me explain something to you:

We are on opposite sides when it comes to pacquaio and Mayweather.

You have the burden of proof when trying to say Mayweather was not rightfully granted the TUE.

I have the burden of proof when saying Pacquaio did not have a full thickness rotator cuff tear.

Now here is what we know:

1. You were WRONG when you said that a retroactive TUE can only be granted in emergency situations. Am I right or wrong? Answer the question, please.

2. You were WRONG when you said a chronic medical condition must be applied for 30 days in advance, as I've shown proof that a TUE for a chronic medical condition can be granted as soon as the condition is discovered. Were you wrong? Answer please. Yes or no?

3. You were WRONG when you stated that video of Mayweather drinking shows that he could rehydrate orally. I proved by word of WADA that there are situations where oral rehydration is not the most effective means of recovery. Did I not prove that with WADA's word? Answer please. Yes or no?

4. You were WRONG when you said Mayweather must have experienced severe dehydration to be granted a TUE. This NEVER appears in the ISTUE. Were you wrong? Yes or no?

Now, burden of proof. Can you prove that Mayweather didn't have chronic dehydration? Can you prove that Mayweather didn't experience hyponatremia? Yes or no? If you can't disprove that, you have no case.

I can probably go on, but you know damn well that you were WRONG about all of these things. You can't even hide from this. Furthermore, your speculation about Mayweather having more than one IV and micro-dosing is not PROOF of any PED use. It is merely speculation.

Face it, you have nothing.

Now on the other hand:
1. Pacquaio showed no sign of the shoulder injury. No video evidence shows him mentioning it during the fight, and he didn't show any physical sign of it during the fight. He never winced in pain and never stopped using the right hand. He never mentioned it until after leaving the ring.

2. He was caught in a BLATANT LIE about when the injury occurred.

3. Your only "proof" of his shoulder injury is the word of his physician. Not only are YOU a hypocrite by arguing tooth and nail that doctors will willingly lie when paid off, but his own doctor remarked that it would take 9 months for him to heal from this surgery. Then Pacquaio claims that he is FULLY HEALED IN 3 MONTHS and there is VIDEO OF HIM PLAYING BASKETBALL AT THE 3 MONTH MARK.

3. He claims it was a MIRACLE since he ADMITTED THAT HE DIDN'T DO ANY REHAB and instead SWAM IN THE SEA to heal his shoulder. Swam in the sea????

Now, we have what he says was A MIRACLE vs. the same damn doctor that you base all of your proof on that he had the injury saying that the injury would take 6 more months than it took to heal the injury.

Even the physician that serves as the main support for your side is found to give evidence that doesn't corroborate Manny's actions if a full thickness tear was present!

That leaves your defense against my accusations severely lacking, which is why the other dude who challenged me on this backed down like a coward.

Hmmm. Now, which one of these two situations seems more like bull****? Be honest!