who among suspected PED user got away the most: Pacquaio, Mayweather or Marquez?

[ADP02]

Let's begin with your last statement:

How else would you take this quotation?:

"The doctor here was amazed when he saw pictures of his movement and everything…The doctor says he's got to see it himself.”


When he saw pictures of his movement, he was AMAZED.

AMAZED DEFINITION: surprise (someone) greatly; fill with astonishment, astound, surprise, stun, stagger, shock, stupefy, awe, stop someone in their tracks, leave open-mouthed, leave aghast, take someone's breath away, dumbfound; bowl over, flabbergast, blow away.

He's got to SEE IT FOR HIMSELF:
Reads kind of like "I have to see it to believe it" doesn't it, especially after saying he is amazed.

PART 1 of 2


a) Arum, a promoter, said the word “amazed”?

b) Arum who you believe was in on this said this? Do I really need to say more?

c) Like I said, you only take it the way you want without taking into consideration who said it and if they are in on it. THink about it. So you are saying that Arum would say it in a way to convince people that Manny had no surgery. So of course Arum just said it in a way to show how amazed they were at how well Manny was recovering.

d) What happened when a doctor examined Manny? They said that Manny still needs to be careful. You do not like this so you call it a lie. If he said something that supports your agenda, you would be commenting on that too. Like I said, that is not how one should be investigating to find out the truth.

e) As state before, you just extrapolate the part that fits your agenda but YOU do not include that Arum also said this “Arum also confirmed that Pacquiao is recovering well after surgery and is on track for a comeback.”

Now as you requested, let's revisit this about Manny.

At every stage of this matter, there are huge question marks and proof of lies.

Before the fight:
He was caught in a lie about when the injury first occurred and whether he felt the effects of the injury immediately before the fight. (FACT)

Pacquiao said: “We wanted a shot for numbing the shoulder but we respect the decision of the Commission it was getting better and better but was still not 100 per cent.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/boxing...eather-5628491

Then he said this:

Pacquiao said, “No, I don’t have pain or injury before the fight. I just want to make sure that whatever happened, I’m still there. I’m not saying I’m not 100 percent condition.”
http://www.newsday.com/sports/boxing...ght-1.11350596

a) This can be just a clarification of what he said initially.

b) During his training he used meds for pain relief.

c) One way to read it is that he felt better but if you looked at it from an MRI perspective, the injury was still there.

d) If Manny was lying, then why say later that he had no pain and so on? Wouldn't it make more sense to not say that if he was lying about the injury in respect to your guess that Manny faked the injury and surgery?

e) What does this have to do with Manny not having an injury at all? NOTHING!

During the fight:(credit to Aboutfkntime)

1. Pac did not mention the injury once (Fact)
2. His corner did not work on the injury (FACT)
3. Pac did not stop using his right hand (FACT)
4. Pac did not stop throwing WITH INTENT (FACT)
5. Pac threw the same amount of punches he threw against Bradley (Fact)
6. The injury wasn't even mentioned during the after-match interview (FACT)

Sure blame Aboutfkntime! He was just like you. Being a Floyd fan trying to be a internet doctor.

1. You do not know this as a fact. Plus the team already knew about this injury beforehand.


2. I’m no expert but how do you work on a torn rotator cuff? By using meds that you are not allowed using? I'm sure they thought of it .... Massage it like they did with Floyd in the Castillo fight? Nope! Ice may help a bit but not much since its not like they can apply it for long enough since they only have time in between rounds to do so. And Manny may not react to it well Floyd didn't use ice..... More than likely, all that would do is notify Floyd that Manny is in trouble.


3. See here is your problem. You just do not know. All rotator cuff injuries are different.
Manny felt pain, yes but he was still able to use it. The punch was not as effective as could have been due to the pain.
Of course you do not mention this:
Reporter asked Manny why he backed up during a flurry. Manny responded it was due to the pain.

Check out Floyd vs Castillo. He was able to still use the injured arm.


4. Some punches did not appear to be as effective and you cannot measure the difference from watching it on TV. Same as #3. Not all rotator cuff injuries are the same.



5.
a) Manny has thrown more against others. Funny that you do not mention the number of connects.

b) It’s like saying, Kobe threw the ball every chance he had. Instead of counting effectiveness (eg. baskets in the hoop)

c) Anyways, this point of yours is also just speculation.

d) STATS COUNT: He only threw 16 right-handed jabs per round compared to his normal average of 26. Only 18 of those jabs connected with Mayweather all night. Pacquiao barely used the right hook that he usually delivers after a straight left. And he only threw 429 punches in the entire fight, 50% lower than his average and was his lowest total ever in a fight.

e) Bradley fight was his first fight back after the injury. Manny could have been tentative throwing it especially early on.



6. Its damned if you do, damned if you do not.

B) Manny went to see a doctor weeks BEFORE the fight.

C) Manny had been prescribed medication in which he used during training.

D) USADA knew about the drugs.

E) Pre-fight form: Meds are there.

F) Meds correspond to what they said it would be used for.

G) They notified NSAC just before the fight. What were they notified about? Leg cramps? No the same shoulder injury!!! You are calling all this coincidence or some pre-planned lie. I call your speculation laughable.

H) All this was confirmed by a renowned doctor.

I) Even other doctors confirmed Manny's injury.

J) It was reported and discussed here that Manny skipped sparring sessions due to an injury during his training camp. Now we know why. Sparring partners confirmed all this.

K) All the above happened but you did not believe. Like Arum said, AMAZING!






.

[ADP02]

i have enjoyed and endured your exchanges with adp on pac's shoulder issue....

both sides have been very articulate and steadfast on their points of view and cheers and props to both of you.....

but i am still lost how pac's shoulder issue relates to the thread topic...

can you or adp please share on the above, please!..i might have missed something previously said/posted on the same...

RIGHT! It has NOTHING to with it.

The reason is because a Floyd fan has little to go on to protect Floyd and his IV scandal so then he tries to deflect and divert any which way he can.

[ADP02]

After the fight:

1. He didn’t go to rehab for the first three months after surgery and perhaps longer. (FACT))
2. He said he was miraculously healed by God and swimming in the sea. (FACT) (you laughably tried to twist this into him meaning his scar is healed. Why make up such a preposterous claim?)
3. Freddie Roach seemingly lied by claiming that Manny really did do rehab (Either Pacquaio or Roach is lying, clearly)
4. Roach says Manny was joking (lying) about being healed by God. The deeply religious Manny lying about being healed by God? Doesn't this show Roach was desperately trying to cover for Pacquaio?
5. There is video and photographic evidence of him doing **** that calls into question the severity of the injury if there was one.(FACT). Pictures of this activity amazed even the surgeon that performed the surgery on him. The doctor stated it was a full thickness tear and that perhaps half of another tendon was also torn, and you think he can go swimming in an ocean in one month? Oh, that's right, you compared this to your son playing in a kiddie pool.
6. His surgeon said it was a full thickness tear, yet a LICENSED PHYSICALLY THERAPIST AND INJURY ANALYST who talked to the doctor reported that it was a partial thickness tear. (FACT) HMM. How would she get this information wrong? Perhaps the good old Dr. ElAttrache didn't think he could slip a fast one by her since she works in the field. Furthermore, she says that it would take 6 months for the repair to anchor and for the shoulder to really heal. 6 MONTHS! Makes it kind of strange that he is waving a flag at 1 month, swimming at 1 month, and playing basketball after 3 months. All of which can be verified.
   
   http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:12849868

As you would say, imagine this was about Floyd instead of Pacquaio.

I hope for this to be my last question on this topic. As has been reported, we are certainly beating the **** out of this dead horse. But here is my final question:

Knowing all of the information I listed above, does this make you even a little su****ious or not?

PART 2 of 2

1. Again, you make a statement a fact only when it serves your purpose. If it does not then it must be a lie, according to YOU.

2. WRONG: As with other points, I cannot speak for Manny nor am I an expert on this subject. All I did was provide you different scenarios. You are the one who twisted it to mean something else. This does not help your case!

3. See, you now called this one a lie ...... Roach called it a joke, you called it a lie. If it favored your point, then you call it a fact.

4. Like I said, you call it a lie only when it serves your propose but you know that it hurts your case?

5. This does not prove that Manny did not have surgery. Not even close!
- As stated above, that was a comment made by Bob Arum.
- Amazing does not mean impossible. Go look up the word impossible.

6. You continue to speculate. Like I said, this really does not help you. It makes you look desperate.




- A picture of holding a flag and your point about swimming is meaningless. Those things that I saw are not things that one can call impossible. The video is more of that. Manny shoots left handed. He injured his right shoulder.

I have read enough to know that even with full thickness tears, passive exercises can start soon after surgery. Of course not aggressively at the beginning but its done before you remove the sling to avoid stiffness and begin the progress of range of motion. I read some starting very soon after surgery! So by the time your picture of holding a flag takes place, for some, it is not an impossible task.

Swimming you say is wrong to do. Well, I had told you that was an incorrect statement a few posts ago and I also read studies that state it can be used instead of the more common rehab techniques. Yes, from the start of rehab.

While it would be nice to get some professional physio, if you ever did physio, you know that lots of the work is done at home. Studies also bring up this point in respect to rotator cuff injuries.

Did I miss anything?
Oh, in the studies that I found, often the person was older and sometimes much older than Manny. Being that they are older and not in the same physical shape Manny was, I’m sure that many did not get the type of favorable remarks from their surgery from their doctor like they did with Manny. Same goes with the health of the body and injured area and so on. So if they can, Manny certainly could!

Also, remember that Manny had just about finished training camp. His body and muscles were in excellent shape. While I’m not talking about getting Manny at his best as far as boxing capabilities (would take longer). All I'm saying is that should make it easier for Manny to come back from his injury compared to most people.

Now add to that Manny had arthroscopic repair which is less invasive:
Doctor said: "Very good, very healthy (muscles). So all those things that we really look for to determine seriousness or severity were not there for Manny. "



Anything else?
Your comments support my take that you are judging on something that is too complicated for you to understand. You show pictures of Manny raising his hands in the fight and say “See, Manny has no injury” but the reason that you are saying that is because you have no idea what you are talking about. Well, also because you want to say that Floyd beat a non-injured Manny.

That is why I keep on telling you why the change in the way you talk?

So as I said many posts ago, I’m no expert but have read enough to say you are wrong.
I told you that there is a disclaimer on just about every website that tells you that not all rotator cuff injuries are alike even though they may appear to be the same. Plus, not everyone heals the same way. Some may struggle while others may not.



Here are some points where an expert doctor explains why you are wrong:
Question: “Does the amount of pain you are having correlate with the size or thickness of your rotator cuff tear?

Doctor: “The size of the tear usually doesn’t correlate with the pain you are experiencing. Many patients mistakenly believe that they must have a large full thickness rotator cuff tear because they are in severe pain … usually the opposite is true.”




Travestyny: “Look Manny can raise his arms. Manny is a liar and not injured!!! We got him!”

Doctor: “Sometimes patients with full thickness tears will have significant loss of motion, and sometimes patients with large rotator cuff tears will have normal motion.
That means that loss of motion, in general, is a poor predictor in and of itself of the presence of a full thickness rotator cuff tear.




So as you can read, you are wrong.



.

[Spoon23]

Wow new detailed Doctor's analysis of how Pac had to endure the pain of that partial thickness rotator cuff tare.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:12849868

Pac fought through pain and gave all he can handle with just one healthy arm against a roided up Froid.

LEGENDARY

[travestyny]

i have enjoyed and endured your exchanges with adp on pac's shoulder issue....

both sides have been very articulate and steadfast on their points of view and cheers and props to both of you.....

but i am still lost how pac's shoulder issue relates to the thread topic...

can you or adp please share on the above, please!..i might have missed something previously said/posted on the same...

Here is a good article that explains why it is relevant.
http://boxingtribune-news.com/posts/...injection.html

Some highlights from this article:

Team Pacquiao has officially changed their story about Manny’s now-infamous right shoulder.

But why would Team Pacquiao be pursuing an injection if, per their new “official” story, the shoulder was fine as of the day of the fight?

One theory is that the medication in that injection may have something to do with Team Pacquiao’s pursuit of the shot.

Toradol is a legitimate, USADA-approved anti-inflammatory used on patients suffering acute pain from either injury or the post-surgery recovery process. There are many legitimate reasons to use Toradol.

But there are also many illegitimate uses for this product.

It’s the sporting world’s worst kept secret that Toradol has been widely used as somewhat of a legalized cheat or substitute “pep pill” for otherwise healthy players looking to be temporarily rejuvenated for the game. In a legitimately injured athlete Toradol completely masks the effects of that injury, allowing the player to perform as if nothing were wrong. In an athlete not suffering from a debilitating injury, however, it turns him into what could be described as a virtually indestructible force.

Assuming Pacquiao’s shoulder was well enough to go ahead with the fight--which is the official position now-- was the purpose of the Toradol to eliminate all the typical aches and pains of the athlete, stifle the reoccurrence of Pacquiao’s frequent leg cramps, mask the effects of a concussion, and/or create an artificial sense of infinite well-being and supreme health within Manny? Could it have been all of the above? None of the above?

[travestyny]

Wow new detailed Doctor's analysis of how Pac had to endure the pain of that partial thickness rotator cuff tare.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:12849868

Pac fought through pain and gave all he can handle with just one healthy arm against a roided up Froid.

LEGENDARY

The surgeon that performed surgery on Pacquaio has gone on record and said it was a FULL THICKNESS ROTATOR CUFF TEAR. You would have known that, but you were too busy being banned.

Why can't Pacquaio's team get their stories straight?

[travestyny]

So you are saying that Arum would say it in a way to convince people that Manny had no surgery. So of course Arum just said it in a way to show how amazed they were at how well Manny was recovering.

Apparently, you were unable to follow me. Maybe I didn't make it clear. Why would the doctor be amazed when seeing pictures of his movement. You said the doctor talked about how great a condition his muscles were in, so why would he be amazed? Can you answer that?

d) What happened when a doctor examined Manny? They said that Manny still needs to be careful. You do not like this so you call it a lie. If he said something that supports your agenda, you would be commenting on that too. Like I said, that is not how one should be investigating to find out the truth.

You know what you don't like? YOU DON'T LIKE THAT MANNY SAID HE WAS HEALED BY SALT WATER AND GOD! YOU BLATANTLY TRIED TO TWIST THIS INTO HIM MEANING HIS SCAR WAS HEALED!!!!! He obviously wasn't talking about this, so please stop trying to pretend that you haven't been trying to spin every damn piece of evidence that you get. That statement was laughable and embarrassing, and you know it.

e) As state before, you just extrapolate the part that fits your agenda but YOU do not include that Arum also said this “Arum also confirmed that Pacquiao is recovering well after surgery and is on track for a comeback.”

Arum also said Manny was unprofessional and has to have rehab for an injury of that nature. What do you have to say about that? So after **** hits the fan, then he goes and has an MRI. After already swimming in the ocean and playing basketball. You are ridiculous.

a) This can be just a clarification of what he said initially.

b) During his training he used meds for pain relief.

c) One way to read it is that he felt better but if you looked at it from an MRI perspective, the injury was still there.

d) If Manny was lying, then why say later that he had no pain and so on? Wouldn't it make more sense to not say that if he was lying about the injury in respect to your guess that Manny faked the injury and surgery?

e) What does this have to do with Manny not having an injury at all? NOTHING!

hahahahahah. YOU ARE RIDICULOUS. THIS IS A CLEAR LIE THAT HE'S CAUGHT IN AND YOU ARE TRYING TO DEFEND IT!!! IT IS BLATANT.

Quote #1: I was not 100%
Quote #2: I'm not saying I'm not 100%

ARE YOU SERIOUSLY TRYING TO SAY THIS WASN'T A BLATANT LIE!!!!!!! STOP EMBARRASSING YOURSELF!!!!

The point is that TEAM PAC HAS BEEN CAUGHT IN LIES OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. IT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE!

Sure blame Aboutfkntime! He was just like you. Being a Floyd fan trying to be a internet doctor.

BLAME? I'm giving him credit for his post. It's spot on. Let's go through how you try to spin it.

1. You do not know this as a fact. Plus the team already knew about this injury beforehand.

Freddie Roach went on record saying he was fine when warming up for the fight. So why did he need Toradol? How are you going to spin that? It was also stated that he injured it during the 3rd round (later the story changed to the 4th round). So why no record of him mentioning it can be found? He tore it in the 4th round, yet didn't say anything and didn't need to because it was already known...only it was only partially torn at that point and not fully torn...and only it felt 100% according to Pacquaio before the fight. LMAO. Hmmm.

2. I’m no expert but how do you work on a torn rotator cuff? By using meds that you are not allowed using? I'm sure they thought of it .... Massage it like they did with Floyd in the Castillo fight? Nope! Ice may help a bit but not much since its not like they can apply it for long enough since they only have time in between rounds to do so. And Manny may not react to it well Floyd didn't use ice..... More than likely, all that would do is notify Floyd that Manny is in trouble.

hahahahaha. So he tears up his shoulder during the fight, and you argue that they just go on as if nothing happened? It started to bleed out according to you, yet they just go on as if nothing happens????? hahahahah. Please tell me more!

3. See here is your problem. You just do not know. All rotator cuff injuries are different.
Manny felt pain, yes but he was still able to use it. The punch was not as effective as could have been due to the pain.
Of course you do not mention this:
Reporter asked Manny why he backed up during a flurry. Manny responded it was due to the pain.

hahahahahaha. Is that what he said after the fight, because I remember something along the lines of "if he would have stood still, I could have hit him." I don't remember anything about not being able to throw effective punches. lol. Give me a fuvking break. So I don't know anything, yet YOU know that he felt pain (that he didn't show) and was not able to throw effective punches. Do you know that, according to your own logic? lol. More bull**** that you're stepping in. Please tell me more!

Check out Floyd vs Castillo. He was able to still use the injured arm.

You really should stop bringing up Floyd/Castillo. It was clear that he had a problem with his shoulder in that fight. How about in Pacquaio/Mayweather? Was it clear? Nope. Didn't think so.

5.
a) Manny has thrown more against others. Funny that you do not mention the number of connects.

b) It’s like saying, Kobe threw the ball every chance he had. Instead of counting effectiveness (eg. baskets in the hoop)

c) Anyways, this point of yours is also just speculation.

d) STATS COUNT: He only threw 16 right-handed jabs per round compared to his normal average of 26. Only 18 of those jabs connected with Mayweather all night. Pacquiao barely used the right hook that he usually delivers after a straight left. And he only threw 429 punches in the entire fight, 50% lower than his average and was his lowest total ever in a fight.

e) Bradley fight was his first fight back after the injury. Manny could have been tentative throwing it especially early on.

More desperation. They said his shoulder was all better. He threw the same punches in the Bradley fight. His punch total had nothing to do with Mayweather's defense? It was about his shoulder? Riiiight.

B) Manny went to see a doctor weeks BEFORE the fight.

C) Manny had been prescribed medication in which he used during training.

D) USADA knew about the drugs.

E) Pre-fight form: Meds are there.

F) Meds correspond to what they said it would be used for.

G) They notified NSAC just before the fight. What were they notified about? Leg cramps? No the same shoulder injury!!! You are calling all this coincidence or some pre-planned lie. I call your speculation laughable.

1. His LYING team tells you he went to see a doctor. Can you deny that his team was caught in lies? Please try to deny this! See, what happens when you are caught lying is that, people have a right to not believe the **** you say next.

2. So he wanted to abuse toradol during training camp. It makes sense. He wanted to abuse it during the fight, too.

3. USADA knew he was taking pain medication. They were legal and USADA said he could take them. What does this prove? He could have at his toradol.

4. The meds were pain killers. One of which is a very powerful pain killer. Why couldn't Manny stick with local pain killers if it was specifically for his shoulder? Hmmm.

5. They notified NSAC when their doctor tried to shoot him up with Toradol and NSAC said no. They also claimed he was 100% before going into the fight, right? So what was the need for Toradol? lol. Spin that.

H) All this was confirmed by a renowned doctor.

I) Even other doctors confirmed Manny's injury.

J) It was reported and discussed here that Manny skipped sparring sessions due to an injury during his training camp. Now we know why. Sparring partners confirmed all this.

K) All the above happened but you did not believe. Like Arum said, AMAZING!

1. The doctor seemingly can't get his story straight. He said it was a full thickness rotator cuff tear. Later, he seemingly tells a rehabilitation specialist that it is a partial thickness rotator cuff tear. He says he has an MRI, but won't release it. He says he is amazed at Manny's recovery. He said Manny should take it easy, but Manny is swimming at 1 month out. Something isn't right.

2. Other doctors....was this before or after **** hit the fan about this INFAMOUS right shoulder? lol

3. Do you know for a fact why he skipped sparring. His team lies about a whole lot of stuff. Hmmm.

To be continued...

[travestyny]

PART 2 of 2

1. Again, you make a statement a fact only when it serves your purpose. If it does not then it must be a lie, according to YOU.

2. WRONG: As with other points, I cannot speak for Manny nor am I an expert on this subject. All I did was provide you different scenarios. You are the one who twisted it to mean something else. This does not help your case!

3. See, you now called this one a lie ...... Roach called it a joke, you called it a lie. If it favored your point, then you call it a fact.

4. Like I said, you call it a lie only when it serves your propose but you know that it hurts your case?

5. This does not prove that Manny did not have surgery. Not even close!
- As stated above, that was a comment made by Bob Arum.
- Amazing does not mean impossible. Go look up the word impossible.

6. You continue to speculate. Like I said, this really does not help you. It makes you look desperate.

Wow. This was absolutely pathetic. Is that the best that you can do? Did you even try?

1. HE STATED CLEARLY THAT HE NEVER WENT TO REHAB. Arum said he was unprofessional FOR NOT GOING TO REHAB. What is there not to understand? Your response to this point was more like a non-response.

2. It is A FACT that he said he was cured by god via salt water from the ocean. Is that not a fact? Seems like you failed to refute that claim. How did I twist it into something else? Sorry, that was YOU when you said he meant it was about his scar. lol. Strike 2 for you.

3. Freddie Roach said Pac did go to rehab within those 3 months. I stated this means either Pacquaio is lying or Freddie is lying. THAT IS A FACT. ONE OF THEM OBVIOUSLY HAS TO BE LYING. Now try to use your brain. Who do you think is lying? Why would Freddie Roach call Pacquaio, find out what doctor he was being treated by in the Phils, call him and talk to him, all wen Manny has gone on record stating that he never went to rehab. lol. BULL**** If you can't see past that bull****, you really are an idiot. Strike 3 for you.

4. Roach said Pacquiao was joking about being healed by God. If he were indeed joking, would that make it a lie? Joking = not being honest, right? Now, you still haven't used common sense. I'll ask again. Would the deeply religious Pacquaio lie about God healing his wound? What do you think? Strike #4. You aren't doing too well.

5. I never said he didn't have surgery. I believe I did say that the injury was greatly exaggerated, if there were one. Funny how you didn't mention the video and photographic evidence that point 5 mentions. I think you addressed that later, so I'll discuss this then.

6. Speculation is your forte, no? Didn't you speculate to make the leap from Floyd taking the IV to Floyd abusing PED's? Didn't you speculate that Manny was talking about his scar when he said his wound was healed? What did I speculate in point #6. Oh, a PHYSICAL THERAPIST EXPERT AND INJURY ANALYST TALKED TO THE SURGEON THAT PERFORMED THE SURGERY, CAME BACK, AND SOMEHOW MISREPORTED THE INJURY. Someone got confused. Why is there so much misinformation and blatant lies with this team? You won't address that.

- A picture of holding a flag and your point about swimming is meaningless. Those things that I saw are not things that one can call impossible. The video is more of that. Manny shoots left handed. He injured his right shoulder.

Oh really? I've asked before. Can you find any evidence from anyone that says swimming after one month of full thickness rotator cuff surgery is possible? Does anyone online recommend waving a flag over your head after 1 month? Does anyone recommend playing basketball after 3 months. I GAVE YOU EVIDENCE FROM A VARIETY OF SOURCES SHOWING THAT SWIMMING AND BASKETBALL ARE BOTH BAD FOR ROTATOR CUFFS. You have no comeback for that. All you say is that all injuries are different. THE DOCTOR SAID HE TORE 1 LIGAMENT COMPLETELY AND PERHAPS HALF OF ANOTHER ONE. And you think he should be swimming at 1 month? You aren't that bright, are you?

I have read enough to know that even with full thickness tears, passive exercises can start soon after surgery. Of course not aggressively at the beginning but its done before you remove the sling to avoid stiffness and begin the progress of range of motion. I read some starting very soon after surgery! So by the time your picture of holding a flag takes place, for some, it is not an impossible task.

hahahaahaha. So swimming and playing basketball is passive exercises for someone who is recovering from a full thickness rotator cuff tear? Please. HIS OWN SURGEON WARNS AGAINST THESE TWO SPECIFIC ACTIVITIES!!!! YOU CAN'T SPIN THIS!

Swimming you say is wrong to do. Well, I had told you that was an incorrect statement a few posts ago and I also read studies that state it can be used instead of the more common rehab techniques. Yes, from the start of rehab.

1. Show me a study that says you should swim IN THE SEA ONE MONTH AFTER SURGERY FOR A FULL THICKNESS ROTATOR CUFF SURGERY. I'd love to read that.
2. Go read about swimmer's shoulder.
3. Review Dr. Neal ElAttrache's video and tell me why he shows someone swimming when talking about activities that are bad for rotator cuffs.
4. I showed YOU medical information that says swimming is NOT good for rehabilitation of a shoulder tear, and is even HARMFUL.

Now add to that Manny had arthroscopic repair which is less invasive:
Doctor said: "Very good, very healthy (muscles). So all those things that we really look for to determine seriousness or severity were not there for Manny. "

1. Dr. Neale ElAttrache mentions in video that the rotator cuff heals slowly. You claimed arthroscopic repair would allow him to swim or play basketball early. Doesn't seem the doctor agrees for various reasons I've already given you.
2. You mention all that the doctor was aware of, and yet he was still amazed at Pacquaio's photos showing off his movement at that stage of recovery. lol
3. I love that you bring up arthroscopic surgery because all it does is make me think of those little three dots of a scar that you claimed Manny was talking about when he said his wound is healed. Ridiculous, you must admit, and shows YOUR desperation.

Anything else?
Your comments support my take that you are judging on something that is too complicated for you to understand. You show pictures of Manny raising his hands in the fight and say “See, Manny has no injury” but the reason that you are saying that is because you have no idea what you are talking about. Well, also because you want to say that Floyd beat a non-injured Manny.

That is why I keep on telling you why the change in the way you talk?

So as I said many posts ago, I’m no expert but have read enough to say you are wrong.
I told you that there is a disclaimer on just about every website that tells you that not all rotator cuff injuries are alike even though they may appear to be the same. Plus, not everyone heals the same way. Some may struggle while others may not.

Very simple. SHOW ME ONE MEDICAL REPORT THAT SAYS YOU CAN GO SWIMMING AFTER ONE MONTH OF FULL THICKNESS ROTATOR CUFF SURGERY. I can show you plenty that say you can NOT go swimming after 1 month of rotator cuff surgery. And mind you, we are talking about IN THE OCEAN, so don't bring up your son in his kiddie pool again. Go. Bring that study to me! Because I know I can bring you the opposite information.

Here are some points where an expert doctor explains why you are wrong:
Question: “Does the amount of pain you are having correlate with the size or thickness of your rotator cuff tear?

Doctor: “The size of the tear usually doesn’t correlate with the pain you are experiencing. Many patients mistakenly believe that they must have a large full thickness rotator cuff tear because they are in severe pain … usually the opposite is true.”

Travestyny: “Look Manny can raise his arms. Manny is a liar and not injured!!! We got him!”

Doctor: “Sometimes patients with full thickness tears will have significant loss of motion, and sometimes patients with large rotator cuff tears will have normal motion.
That means that loss of motion, in general, is a poor predictor in and of itself of the presence of a full thickness rotator cuff tear.

So as you can read, you are wrong.

.

I've already addressed this with the other idiot I destroyed. These studies are clearly about people living with the injuries. That is obvious. THIS IS NOT ABOUT SOMEONE IN A PROFESSIONAL PRIZE FIGHT THROWING RIGHT HANDS REPEATEDLY TO THE POINT THAT 1 TENDON RIPS OFF THE BONE AND ANOTHER ONE RIPS IN HALF, AND THE SHOULDER BEGINS TO BLEED. You can do much better than this, can't you?

[Dosumpthin]

PART 2 of 2

1. Again, you make a statement a fact only when it serves your purpose. If it does not then it must be a lie, according to YOU.

2. WRONG: As with other points, I cannot speak for Manny nor am I an expert on this subject. All I did was provide you different scenarios. You are the one who twisted it to mean something else. This does not help your case!

3. See, you now called this one a lie ...... Roach called it a joke, you called it a lie. If it favored your point, then you call it a fact.

4. Like I said, you call it a lie only when it serves your propose but you know that it hurts your case?

5. This does not prove that Manny did not have surgery. Not even close!
- As stated above, that was a comment made by Bob Arum.
- Amazing does not mean impossible. Go look up the word impossible.

6. You continue to speculate. Like I said, this really does not help you. It makes you look desperate.




- A picture of holding a flag and your point about swimming is meaningless. Those things that I saw are not things that one can call impossible. The video is more of that. Manny shoots left handed. He injured his right shoulder.

I have read enough to know that even with full thickness tears, passive exercises can start soon after surgery. Of course not aggressively at the beginning but its done before you remove the sling to avoid stiffness and begin the progress of range of motion. I read some starting very soon after surgery! So by the time your picture of holding a flag takes place, for some, it is not an impossible task.

Swimming you say is wrong to do. Well, I had told you that was an incorrect statement a few posts ago and I also read studies that state it can be used instead of the more common rehab techniques. Yes, from the start of rehab.

While it would be nice to get some professional physio, if you ever did physio, you know that lots of the work is done at home. Studies also bring up this point in respect to rotator cuff injuries.

Did I miss anything?
Oh, in the studies that I found, often the person was older and sometimes much older than Manny. Being that they are older and not in the same physical shape Manny was, I’m sure that many did not get the type of favorable remarks from their surgery from their doctor like they did with Manny. Same goes with the health of the body and injured area and so on. So if they can, Manny certainly could!

Also, remember that Manny had just about finished training camp. His body and muscles were in excellent shape. While I’m not talking about getting Manny at his best as far as boxing capabilities (would take longer). All I'm saying is that should make it easier for Manny to come back from his injury compared to most people.

Now add to that Manny had arthroscopic repair which is less invasive:
Doctor said: "Very good, very healthy (muscles). So all those things that we really look for to determine seriousness or severity were not there for Manny. "



Anything else?
Your comments support my take that you are judging on something that is too complicated for you to understand. You show pictures of Manny raising his hands in the fight and say “See, Manny has no injury” but the reason that you are saying that is because you have no idea what you are talking about. Well, also because you want to say that Floyd beat a non-injured Manny.

That is why I keep on telling you why the change in the way you talk?

So as I said many posts ago, I’m no expert but have read enough to say you are wrong.
I told you that there is a disclaimer on just about every website that tells you that not all rotator cuff injuries are alike even though they may appear to be the same. Plus, not everyone heals the same way. Some may struggle while others may not.



Here are some points where an expert doctor explains why you are wrong:
Question: “Does the amount of pain you are having correlate with the size or thickness of your rotator cuff tear?

Doctor: “The size of the tear usually doesn’t correlate with the pain you are experiencing. Many patients mistakenly believe that they must have a large full thickness rotator cuff tear because they are in severe pain … usually the opposite is true.”




Travestyny: “Look Manny can raise his arms. Manny is a liar and not injured!!! We got him!”

Doctor: “Sometimes patients with full thickness tears will have significant loss of motion, and sometimes patients with large rotator cuff tears will have normal motion.
That means that loss of motion, in general, is a poor predictor in and of itself of the presence of a full thickness rotator cuff tear.




So as you can read, you are wrong.



.

You have been proven wrong and will not admit it. That's sad but I understand.....

Self-deception is a process of denying or rationalizing away the relevance, significance, or importance of opposing evidence and logical argument. Self-deception involves convincing oneself of a truth (or lack of truth) so that one does not reveal any self-knowledge of the deception.

You can't pick and choose which lie to believe about the injury. You're only fooling yourself.

Facts are if they are lying about it, which has been undoubtedly proven they all have lied at some point, then **** whatever else they say about the injury. They are lying and trying to cover it up.

Common sense.

[tangalog2200]

Here is a good article that explains why it is relevant.
http://boxingtribune-news.com/posts/...injection.html

Some highlights from this article:

Team Pacquiao has officially changed their story about Manny’s now-infamous right shoulder.

But why would Team Pacquiao be pursuing an injection if, per their new “official” story, the shoulder was fine as of the day of the fight?

One theory is that the medication in that injection may have something to do with Team Pacquiao’s pursuit of the shot.

Toradol is a legitimate, USADA-approved anti-inflammatory used on patients suffering acute pain from either injury or the post-surgery recovery process. There are many legitimate reasons to use Toradol.

But there are also many illegitimate uses for this product.

It’s the sporting world’s worst kept secret that Toradol has been widely used as somewhat of a legalized cheat or substitute “pep pill” for otherwise healthy players looking to be temporarily rejuvenated for the game. In a legitimately injured athlete Toradol completely masks the effects of that injury, allowing the player to perform as if nothing were wrong. In an athlete not suffering from a debilitating injury, however, it turns him into what could be described as a virtually indestructible force.

Assuming Pacquiao’s shoulder was well enough to go ahead with the fight--which is the official position now-- was the purpose of the Toradol to eliminate all the typical aches and pains of the athlete, stifle the reoccurrence of Pacquiao’s frequent leg cramps, mask the effects of a concussion, and/or create an artificial sense of infinite well-being and supreme health within Manny? Could it have been all of the above? None of the above?

thanks for the info.....

clarifications:

is toradol now included in the banned substance list?

i take it that pac was not allowed the shot b4 the fight....so what is the issue?

i could only guess on why team pac "lied" on the shoulder issue because of the court cases....but really, it still appears to me as a totally disconnect on the tread topic...

or perhaps, you may have more to it....

again, thanks...