Should Manny Still Be Placed Above Floyd On The ATG List?

[madsweeney]

mayweather coming out of retirement beat a jmm that jumped two weight classes to fight the p4p king at that time but you see when jmm got to 147 he didnt ask for that rematch when their bodies had become accustom to the weight, why is that?
and also it wasnt manny pacquiao who beat him he lost to a fighter named freddie norwood i believe
so a fighter who we dont know of beat jmm by a UD but it took the "ATG" manny pacquiao 4 tries in which he NEVER got a convincing win over jmm and ultimately got KNOCKED OUT by his nemesis? gyeah i hear you talkin'

No rematch because JMM knows he didn't have the style/size to compete plain and simple. He fought 2 other times @ 147, against Pac (who is the same size as him) and Bradley who was 2 fights into 147.

JMM/Pac should have peaked at 135/140. Floyd is naturally bigger than both and way too good for them to give up a substantial size advantage.

[Combat Talk Radio]

Well his resume is what I look at.

I legit want to understand how you can dismiss a guy who beat Jeff Lacy, Roy Jones, Chris Eubank, and Bernard Hopkins? Especially Lacy when Joe should in no way have won that fight?

[IMDAZED]

I legit want to understand how you can dismiss a guy who beat Jeff Lacy, Roy Jones, Chris Eubank, and Bernard Hopkins? Especially Lacy when Joe should in no way have won that fight?

More important than who is when.

I never thought highly of Lacy and tabbed Calzaghe to beat him. But even if you did think highly of him, he wasnt on anyone's pound for pound list. He was a good win.

Roy Jones? You're kidding right? Eubank on several day's notice? Those wins don't do much for me.

I do think Calzaghe's win over Hopkins is a great one. I'd rate his win above Kessler better than the others.

[tangalog2200]

Stop dreaming will you? They don't believe the hype that pac getting ko,ed makes Floyd better.
PACs held to higher standards . PAC could win 12 rounds like he did against SSM and clo5ey but the topic of discussion would be PAC didn't ko his opponent?

when the bell ending the fight rings, floyd surely wins....

this is nothing new in nevada...it is like a law...

[Rath]

With Floyd and Manny, I think both resumes are very close without them even fighting.

Both fought Delahoya out of prime - CW for Pac
Both fought Mosley out of prime
Pac fought Cotto in prime - CW for Pac
Floyd fought bloated Marquez, Pac's fights with Marquez are seen to be more legit.

With the resumes being close enough to start with, and Mayweather getting a W over Manny, I would say it's safe to give Mayweather a slightly higher ATG status.

Pac vs dela hoya was not a catchweight, Pac fought delahoya moving up in weight.

Floyd fought marquez at catchweight of 144lbs, Marquez fought floyd moving up two weight classes and Floyd cheated by weighing 146lbs 2lbs more than the contracted catchweight at 144lbs.

Pac fought Marg, floyd did not.

Pac is the only 8 division world champion in the world and in the history of boxing.

red corner won and that was not floyd.

[Dean_Razorback]

bunch of fanboys discrediting each others opinions based on purely nothing but expeculation.

[madsweeney]

There were quite a few people calling for Pacquiao to fight Raheem instead. You probably didn't notice during your circle jerk. And to be fair, there were a lot of new boxing fans who had signed on during Manny's rise and bought into what Arum was selling regarding a Morales rematch. But the fact remains that you can't pretend Morales was still at ATG form when he rematched Pacquiao and during that unnecessary third bout. You have the benefit of hindsight now so it wouldn't hurt you to use it.

Really?!? There were people calling for Pac to break his contract, and climb another weight class after going 1/2 fights @130? Or was this between the win and Raheem's loss 3 months later? Don't try to re-write history, weight classes, and time-lines do not support your made-up conspiracy that there was some big push for that fight. Or are you making the argument that Pac should have ducked the guy that beat him to fight Raheem...wait didn't fight Zab coming off a loss instead of the winner?

Morales was in better ATG form for Pac than Pac was for Floyd. One boxing lesson < KTFO at the twilight of their careers.

[IMDAZED]

Really?!? There were people calling for Pac to break his contract, and climb another weight class after going 1/2 fights @130? Or was this between the win and Raheem's loss 3 months later? Don't try to re-write history, weight classes, and time-lines do not support your made-up conspiracy that there was some big push for that fight. Or are you making the argument that Pac should have ducked the guy that beat him to fight Raheem...wait didn't fight Zab coming off a loss instead of the winner?

Morales was in better ATG form for Pac than Pac was for Floyd. One boxing lesson < KTFO at the twilight of their careers.

Why would he have to break his contract?

[Combat Talk Radio]

More important than who is when.

I never thought highly of Lacy and tabbed Calzaghe to beat him. But even if you did think highly of him, he wasnt on anyone's pound for pound list. He was a good win.

Roy Jones? You're kidding right? Eubank on several day's notice? Those wins don't do much for me.

I do think Calzaghe's win over Hopkins is a great one. I'd rate his win above Kessler better than the others.

See in my eyes I care about one thing: is your opponent a threat given everything else you know about fighter B vs. fighter A?

In my eyes, Kessler was not a threat. Calzaghe held back for some reason and I don't know why to this day, but he should have boxed circles around the guy over 12. That's not dismissing Kessler, I just felt Calzaghe was a better rounded fighter.

No matter how late Joe fought Eubank or Jones, they both were still threats to him because his chin hadn't been tested until he fought Eubank - he weathered that storm beautifully. When he fought Jones, Jones was just in his 40's but still dangerous, evident by his power shots in that fight.

B-Hop wasn't a true threat, just a dirty fighter. But he was a big name dirty fighter that hadn't peaked yet.

Everyone thought Lacy was going to destroy Calzaghe. It wasn't that he was a top P4P, but he was a dangerous up and coming fighter...that got schooled.


Personal opinion: dismissing Calzaghe's big wins means you dismiss Kovalev's schooling of Hopkins and Pascal, Fury's schooling of Wlad, Vitali's schooling of Briggs...etc. And I don't think anyone's doing that.

[IMDAZED]

See in my eyes I care about one thing: is your opponent a threat given everything else you know about fighter B vs. fighter A?

In my eyes, Kessler was not a threat. Calzaghe held back for some reason and I don't know why to this day, but he should have boxed circles around the guy over 12. That's not dismissing Kessler, I just felt Calzaghe was a better rounded fighter.

No matter how late Joe fought Eubank or Jones, they both were still threats to him because his chin hadn't been tested until he fought Eubank - he weathered that storm beautifully. When he fought Jones, Jones was just in his 40's but still dangerous, evident by his power shots in that fight.

B-Hop wasn't a true threat, just a dirty fighter. But he was a big name dirty fighter that hadn't peaked yet.

Everyone thought Lacy was going to destroy Calzaghe. It wasn't that he was a top P4P, but he was a dangerous up and coming fighter...that got schooled.


Personal opinion: dismissing Calzaghe's big wins means you dismiss Kovalev's schooling of Hopkins and Pascal, Fury's schooling of Wlad, Vitali's schooling of Briggs...etc. And I don't think anyone's doing that.

You have your own idea of what threat is. Oddsmakers certainly didn't make Jones a threat.