Miguel Cotto and Roc Nation refused VADA testing for Alvarez fight

[MDPopescu]

... OK... I understand (from here) that Cotto refused VADA random testing... But Canelo? Did Canelo take VADA testing?... because it's "voluntary"...

... I also remember that GGG and Lemieux took VADA testing with 3 weeks (???) before the fight...

[HeroBando]

Expense has nothing to do with it. VADA contracts out to random sample collectors, who apparently operate without much formal actual sampling criteria (evidenced by the "Rios pisses into a random drinking cup, while he waits on the collector to return with the specimen cup" situation), while also not having ANY testing facility, anywhere.

Yes, USADA may actually be more expensive; when you're locking in formal sample collectors, formal collection protocols, and formal relationships with labs across the country for full testing of various samples, that extra cost is worth it. penny wise, pound foolish, tbh.

J'Leon Love gets busted for a diaretic (hydrochlorothiozide, a HBP medicine that has the little side effect of forcing water out of the body) and the world comes down on him; Brandon Rios gets busted for have an active stimulant in his system, the stories get out about the testing procedure that led to said result, and the only consequence in any of this is a short suspension from a commission that Rios likely never intended to fight in, again in life.

Money not being an issue (doubt that RocNation is tripping over the cost of testing for a fight card that's likely to generate over $100m in revenue once everything's counted), you take USADA every time.

Love was busted by the commission dummy, just like his stable mate Bey. So you're saying Rios was clean or what?

You take Usada if you wanna juice up and not have the commission know. No brainer, best kind of testing

[SplitSecond]

They agreed to USADA. Is that not happening or are you just trying to manipulate people into thinking Cotto did something su****ious?

From what I've read, vada is more expensive and they've pissed a lot of people off so many won't use them.

It seems to me you have USADA mixed up with VADA.

[gee73]

Value added? Usada is way more expensive, dummy. The added value is in limited disclosure.

USADA is more expensive, because VADA is funded. The VADA funding is questionable, because nobody knows where it comes from.
But USADA and VADA are not compareable in their costs. When you talk about the costs, make sure that you are comparing the same number of tests. The whole USADA organization is way bigger, because they have their own whereabouts system and doctors available 24/7 for questions regarding drug testing and medication.

Maybe because VADA actually reports to the commission before they report to daddy haymon? Do they use USADA facilities or are they using WADA facilities that USADA also uses? And what does it matter what facilities they're using?While USADA doesn't use CIR testing, VADA does. Why trust an organization that doesn't report drugs tests?

1. You always report to the teams, then to the commission
2. Their are independent facilities, but WADA accredited
3. It matters which facilities are used. WADA accredited labs usually have better analytical testing methods with higher accuracy and have testing methods for drug testing which are not generally available. That's why it is so expensive and that's how you are actually catch drug cheats, like for example in the CERA cases.
4. USADA uses CIR for boxing.

What was the USADA cost for Mayweather-Maidana I/II, Mayweather-Alvarez, Mayweather-Guerrero, Mayweather-Cotto, Mayweather-Ortiz, or Mayweather-Mosley? Or any of the other fights that USADA has handled the testing for?

My guess is that the number probably wasn't over $100k.

To hear you tell it, if VADA had been in charge of the testing for Mayweather-Pacquiao, you'd have folks believe that said testing could've been properly handled and administered for $20k.

gtfoh

There are actually check from the Guerrero and Canelo fights which Mayweather posted (which came from Goldenboy), where each time 250k$ were deducted for drug testing.
VADA wouldn't do it for 20k$. You don't get 20k$ drug testing (even when heavily funded by someone who is funding VADA...) with 19 tests per athlete, blood and urine and with CIR.

If all you've got to hang your hat on is that Dr. Goodman's organization is willing to shell out the extra cost to send her samples to a WADA-accredited lab for CIR testing of every sample, you're not hanging on by much (from what I've read CIR testing is only used to check the confirmation of an already tested positive sample, often in appeal situations).

Only two WADA-accredited labs in the country, both of them out west.

CIR is not used on every sample because it's a little bit more expensive and the labs don't have the capacity to test every sample for CIR.

Expense has nothing to do with it. VADA contracts out to random sample collectors, who apparently operate without much formal actual sampling criteria (evidenced by the "Rios pisses into a random drinking cup, while he waits on the collector to return with the specimen cup" situation), while also not having ANY testing facility, anywhere.

Yes, USADA may actually be more expensive; when you're locking in formal sample collectors, formal collection protocols, and formal relationships with labs across the country for full testing of various samples, that extra cost is worth it. penny wise, pound foolish, tbh.

Most organisations are using sample collection companies, who have DCOs (Doping Collection Officers) spread around the country/world to be able to test athletes shortly after they have been selected for a random drug test. That way only the sample has to travel, but not the DCO, which dramatically reduces the cost.
A big problem is, that there is not a process which is testing the knowledge and abilities of the DCOs of the collection companies, especially in less developed countries.

[SplitSecond]

CIR is not used on every sample because it's a little bit more expensive and the labs don't have the capacity to test every sample for CIR.

If Vada can do it on every test, USADA should too.

[HeroBando]

USADA is more expensive, because VADA is funded. The VADA funding is questionable, because nobody knows where it comes from.
But USADA and VADA are not compareable in their costs. When you talk about the costs, make sure that you are comparing the same number of tests. The whole USADA organization is way bigger, because they have their own whereabouts system and doctors available 24/7 for questions regarding drug testing and medication.




1. You always report to the teams, then to the commission
2. Their are independent facilities, but WADA accredited
3. It matters which facilities are used. WADA accredited labs usually have better analytical testing methods with higher accuracy and have testing methods for drug testing which are not generally available. That's why it is so expensive and that's how you are actually catch drug cheats, like for example in the CERA cases.
4. USADA uses CIR for boxing.




There are actually check from the Guerrero and Canelo fights which Mayweather posted (which came from Goldenboy), where each time 250k$ were deducted for drug testing.
VADA wouldn't do it for 20k$. You don't get 20k$ drug testing (even when heavily funded by someone who is funding VADA...) with 19 tests per athlete, blood and urine and with CIR.




CIR is not used on every sample because it's a little bit more expensive and the labs don't have the capacity to test every sample for CIR.




Most organisations are using sample collection companies, who have DCOs (Doping Collection Officers) spread around the country/world to be able to test athletes shortly after they have been selected for a random drug test. That way only the sample has to travel, but not the DCO, which dramatically reduces the cost.
A big problem is, that there is not a process which is testing the knowledge and abilities of the DCOs of the collection companies, especially in less developed countries.

Who is Usada funded by? You're saying they're syphoning off some of their money for other sports for boxing? Doubt it, theyre testing 100s of other athletes for a fraçtion of the 100k they got for just one fight. And with all those resources you'd think they would have pprevented some cheats from entering the ring. Nope, zero

[joesaiditstrue]

They agreed to USADA. Is that not happening or are you just trying to manipulate people into thinking Cotto did something su****ious?

From what I've read, vada is more expensive and they've pissed a lot of people off so many won't use them.

VADA is about 10 times cheaper than USADA.

[Redd Foxx]

It seems to me you have USADA mixed up with VADA.

VADA is about 10 times cheaper than USADA.

Just wrote a long reply to this but my POS phone lost connection again and I'm not going to dig upthe quotes again. Basically, you can't rely on numbers vada fed to the press to promote themselves. There are procedures and there are fees, one charges more for procedure, the other more in fees. This is why sometimes one will be cheaper than the other. Really, it seems to go both ways. Those interesting in attacking the USADA will point to areas in which VADA is cheaper and vice versa. Some speculated that the UFC went with USADA for randoms because they were cheaper in the long run (despite vada offering a discount in the first year) but, without hard figures we can only speculate.

[Mr. Philadel]

GOOD! I like my fighters PED'd UP!!!! I know it sounds messed up but everyone is on something and being on PEDs makes for more exciting fights. Humans under normal natural circumstances gas out faster and provide lackluster performances. I also want Cotto to beat Canelo in devastating fashion so this is a good sign.

[SplitSecond]

Just wrote a long reply to this but my POS phone lost connection again and I'm not going to dig upthe quotes again. Basically, you can't rely on numbers vada fed to the press to promote themselves. There are procedures and there are fees, one charges more for procedure, the other more in fees. This is why sometimes one will be cheaper than the other. Really, it seems to go both ways. Those interesting in attacking the USADA will point to areas in which VADA is cheaper and vice versa. Some speculated that the UFC went with USADA for randoms because they were cheaper in the long run (despite vada offering a discount in the first year) but, without hard figures we can only speculate.

This has been talked about numerous times, you are literally the first person I know saying VADA might be pricier than USADA. You'd think it would have been cleared up by now if that was the case.