Whose 49-0 is truly greater? Mayweather or Marciano?

[BrometheusBob.]

Using your logic Larry Holmes win over Muhammad Ali was "really big". Either you have no concept of the time when these fights were made or you're going out of your way to be contrary.

When I said really big, I didn't mean the biggest wins of all time. I mean that he beat seriously good fighters. Muhammad Ali is quite different a scenario going into that fight w/ Holmes than Joe Louis was with Marciano. Ali was coming straight off of a two year layoff and his most recent experience included trading wins with Spinks, who was not exactly distinguished prior at the professional level. Plus prior to the fight the NSAC ordered neurological exam showed that Ali had already begun showing potential early signs of Parkinson's and really should never have been allowed to take that fight. Joe Louis was NOT in a situation comparable to that AT ALL.

So no, I would not say that Holmes' win over Ali was "really big".

[IronDanHamza]

When I said really big, I didn't mean the biggest wins of all time. I mean that he beat seriously good fighters. Muhammad Ali is quite different a scenario going into that fight w/ Holmes than Joe Louis was with Marciano. Ali was coming straight off of a two year layoff and his most recent experience included trading wins with Spinks, who was not exactly distinguished prior at the professional level. Plus prior to the fight the NSAC ordered neurological exam showed that Ali had already begun showing potential early signs of Parkinson's and really should never have been allowed to take that fight. Joe Louis was NOT in a situation comparable to that.

But Louis was still clearly finished.

You're just looking at the names and considering them really big wins.

But I guess that's what happens. 60 years from now they will do the same thing with Mayweather and consider wins over Oscar, Mosley, Cotto, Pacquaio etc to be much better than they actually are which is exactly what's going on with Marciano here.

[joseph5620]

When I said really big, I didn't mean the biggest wins of all time. I mean that he beat seriously good fighters. Muhammad Ali is quite different a scenario going into that fight w/ Holmes than Joe Louis was with Marciano. Ali was coming straight off of a two year layoff and his most recent experience included trading wins with Spinks, who was not exactly distinguished prior at the professional level. Plus prior to the fight the NSAC ordered neurological exam showed that Ali had already begun showing potential early signs of Parkinson's and really should never have been allowed to take that fight. Joe Louis was NOT in a situation comparable to that AT ALL.

So no, I would not say that Holmes' win over Ali was "really big".

Joe Louis came out of a two year retirement to fight Ezzard Charles and lost badly. His next loss was a bad loss to Marciano. Care to explain what Joe Lous did between that time that is comparable to Manny Pacquiao today?

Also, the comparison to Ali was pointing out that Holmes beat a shell of Muhammad Ali as did Marciano with Louis. They were not "big wins."

[joseph5620]

But Louis was still clearly finished.

You're just looking at the names and considering them really big wins.

But I guess that's what happens. 60 years from now they will do the same thing with Mayweather and consider wins over Oscar, Mosley, Cotto, Pacquaio etc to be much better than they actually are which is exactly what's going on with Marciano here.

That's exactly what happened

[BrometheusBob.]

Alright this kind of begs the question for me of where y'all would consider Marciano to be in terms of ATGs? Top 25? 50? Further?

[IronDanHamza]

Alright this kind of begs the question for me of where y'all would consider Marciano to be in terms of ATGs? Top 25? 50? Further?

Much further.

He's not an ATG.

[BrometheusBob.]

But Louis was still clearly finished.

You're just looking at the names and considering them really big wins.

But I guess that's what happens. 60 years from now they will do the same thing with Mayweather and consider wins over Oscar, Mosley, Cotto, Pacquaio etc to be much better than they actually are which is exactly what's going on with Marciano here.

But I'm not just doing that. I realize that if he had fought all of those guys in prime years his record would be quite incredible and I'd rate him even higher. (Hm, that statement applies pretty well for both guys)

[BrometheusBob.]

Much further.

He's not an ATG.

TBH I'm surprised to hear that.

[IronDanHamza]

TBH I'm surprised to hear that.

Marciano is arguably not even a Top 10 HW so how on Earth could he be anywhere close to Top 25 of all time?

I don't know why that suprises you. It's not an uncommon view.

[-PBP-]

lolwut, how are Charles(2), Moore, Walcott(2), Joe Louis not really big wins?

That's hindsight bias bro. You have the benefit of being alive to see a declining Mosley, Cotto and Oscar but you weren't alive to witness the decline of Charles, Louis and Walcott. All you see is a list of names with a green W box.