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1, it takes being in the greatest era to date
2, beating all the other greats in their prime in that era
simple really.
I like I said millions of time Mayweather is a great fighter but he was in a weakest era of boxing, their was only 1 other great fighter and that victory is tainted with the shoulder injury, his IV use, and he didnt not even fight him in his prime.Comment
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I think you have to consider everything, the wins and losses, the quality of their opposition. I put zero value to the PPV records and public attention received (though Mayweather and his team made an art of turning hatred into $), because they have no significant bearing on ability and resume.
SRR's quality of opposition is absolutely undeniable. Of course in 200 fights it wasn't 200 ATGs he was facing, but he fought a who's who of a strong era. Wins over multiple HOFers. He went 128-1 in his first decade as a pro before losing to Turpin, and in that time he swept up the stacked WW division with only one loss in that time to Jake LaMotta, aka a MW not a WW(official weights 144.5 to 160.5 respectively), and who he would beat many times after that.
I couldn't even fathom putting together an argument that Mayweather's resume is better.
EDIT: Shoot I was looking for something I saved that had his opponents rankings at times and the number of times he fought the #1 available guy is staggering. You'd never see that today, and I'm not even pointing the finger at just Mayweather with that acccusation. Lots of fighters are straight shook to take on real challenges. If fighters were fighting more often I wouldn't mind occasional weaker opponents. But if you fight twice a year and one guy is a bum it's kind of frustrating.Last edited by BrometheusBob.; 09-14-2015, 12:48 AM.Comment
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Ah here we are. Btw, I of course did not spend the time it would take to put this together. These are The Ring ratings of the fighters he fought.
Bolded times he fought #1 contender or the current champ.1)Pete Lello (#3 LW – 1940)
2)Sammy Angott (#1 LW – 1940, LW Champ – 1941, #2 LW – 1943, #8 WW – 1945)
3)Maxie Shapiro (#8 LW – 1942)
4)Marty Servo [Undefeated] (WW Champ – 1946)
5)Fritzie Zivic (WW Champ – 1940, #3 WW – 1941, #8 WW 1942)
6)Maxie Berger (JWW Champ – 1939, #6 WW – 1940)
7)Norman Rubio (#10 WW – 1941)
'8)Reuben Shank (#8 MW – 1943)
9)Tony Motisi (#9 WW – 1942)
10)Jake LaMotta (#6 MW – 1942, #1 MW – 1943, #2 MW – 1944, #3 MW – 1945, #1 MW – 1946)
(#5 MW – 1947, #3 MW – 1948, MW Champ – 1949 & 1950)
11)Izzy Janazzo (#2 WW – 1940, #8 WW – 1941 & 1943)
12)Vic Dellicurti (#10 MW – 1944)
13)Al Nettlow (couple close fights with Bob Montgomery, beat Maxie Berger)
14)California Jackie Wilson (#2 WW – 1941, #3 WW – 1942)
15)Ralph Zannelli (#5 WW – 1943, #4 WW – 1947)
16)Henry Armstrong (WW Champ – 1938 & 1939, #1 WW – 1940, #2 WW – 1942, #1 WW – 1944)
17)Sheik Rangel (#10 WW – 1942)
18)George Martin (beat Ralph Zannelli, Garvey Young, V. Vines, Pedro Montanez, Battling Battalino, Andy Callahan)
19)Tommy Bell (#1 WW – 1946, #2 WW – 1947)
20)George Costner (#5 WW – 1947, #2 WW – 1949)
21)Jimmy McDaniels (#4 WW – 1944)
22)O'Neill Bell (just beat George Costner, Jackie Wilson, and Fritzie Zivic back to back to back)
23)Joe Curcio (beat Fritzie Zivic, Cecil Hudson, and Johnny Green)
24)Vinnie Vines (beat Sam Baroudi and Jackie Alzek)
25)Ossie Harris (beat Tommy Bell, Reuben Shank, and Fritzie Zivic)
26)Cecil Hudson (beat Tommy Bell, Fritzie Zivic, Freddie Dixon, Ossie Harris, & Sheik Rangel)
27)Artie Levine (beat Jimmy Doyle, Marvin Bryant, Vic Dellicurti, Herbie Kronowitz, & Joe Agosta)
28)Georgie Abrams (#5 MW – 1946)
29)Jimmy Doyle (#2 WW – 1945, #7 WW – 1946)
30)Billy Nixon (beat Johnny Green, Buster Tyler, & Johnny Hutchinson)
31)Chuck Taylor (beat Frankie Abrams, Tony Pellone, and Honeychile Johnson)
32)Henry Brimm (beat Vic Dellicurti, Holman Williams, Joey DeJohn, Arte Towne, & Tony Elizondo)
33)Bernard Docusen (#3 WW – 1948 & 1949)
34)Kid Gavilan (#1 WW – 1948, 1949, 1950, & 1951, WW Champ – 1952 & 1953)
35)Bobby Lee (beat Livio Minelli, Billy Nixon, Nava Esparza, Dorsey Lay, Honeychile Johnson, Chico Varona, & Gene Burton)
36)Don Lee (beat Jimmy McDaniels, Vince Foster, Sheik Rangel, Joe Danos, Howard Bleyhl, Billy Tierney)
37)Earl Turner (beat Sheik Rangel, Fred Apostoli, Cecil Hudson, Cocoa Kid, Don Lee, Jackie Wilson, George Costner, George Duke, etc)
38)Steve Belloise (#2 MW – 1948, #5 MW – 1949)
39)Al Mobley (beat Fritzie Zivic, Georgie Benton, Honeychile Johnson, George Martin, Sylvester Perkins, Otis Graham, & Bert Linam)
40)Aaron Wade (#7 MW – 1945)
41)Ray Barnes (#7 MW – 1950)
42)Robert Villemain (#3 MW – 1949, #8 MW – 1950, #9 MW – 1951)
43)Charley Fusari (#3 WW – 1950, #8 WW – 1951)
44)Jose Basora (#4 MW – 1943 & 1944)
45)Joe Rindone (beat Ralph Zannelli, Paul Pender, Bob Murphy, Pierre Langlois, Joe Blackwood, Charley Zivic, & Henry Lee)
46)Bobo Olson (#3 MW – 1952, MW Champ – 1953 & 1954, #1 MW – 1955)
47)Bobby Dykes (#2 WW – 1952, #5 MW – 1953)
48)Jean Stock (beat Randy Turpin, Bobby Dawson, Omar Kouidri, Cyrille Delannoit, Robert Charron, Edouard Tenet)
49)Luc van Dam (beat Jean Stock, Cyrille Delannoit, Jacques Royer Crecy, Albert Finch, Bep van Klaveren, & Felix Wouters)
50)Hans Stretz (beat Randy Turpin, Jacques Royer Crecy, Al Mobley, Peter Mueller, Rudi Pepper)
(Carl Schmidt, Heinz Sanger, Alex Buxton, Johnny Sullivan, Franco Festucci)
51)Holley Mims (#8 MW – 1953, #3 MW – 1954, #6 MW – 1955)
52)Cyrille Delannoit (#5 MW – 1948)
53)Randy Turpin (#1 MW – 1951 & 1952, MW Champ – 1951)
54)Rocky Graziano (#3 MW – 1946, MW Champ – 1947, #10 MW – 1948 & 1951)
55)Garth Panter (beat Pierre Langlois, Walter Cartier, and Earl Turner)
56)Rocky Castellani (#1 MW – 1953, #2 MW – 1954, #5 MW – 1955)
57)Gene Fullmer (#1 MW – 1956, MW Champ – 1957, #2 MW – 1957 & 1958, #1 MW – 1959, 1960, 1961, & 1962)
58)Carmen Basilio (WW Champ – 1955 & 1956, MW Champ – 1957, #1 MW – 1958)
59)Denny Moyer (#9 MW – 1961, #6 MW – 1962, JMW Champ – 1963, #9 MW – 1968, #2 MW – 1969)
60)Ralph Dupas (#2 WW – 1961, #3 WW – 1962, #4 WW – 1963, JMW Champ – 1963)
61)Yoland Leveque (beat Bennie Briscoe, Jacques Marty, Art Hernandez, & Bo Hogberg)
This includes zero losses against WW and LW fighters, including against the best of both of those divisions of that time. With that alone he would have a better resume imo than Mayweather, but then he decided to fight multiple great MW opponents (including LaMotta while he was still literally a WW) and he had an excellent but not perfect run at that division.
Angott, Zivic, LaMotta, Armstrong, Gavilan, Olson, Turpin, Graziano, Fullmer, Basilio are HOFers. (Granted that Armstrong was definitely not in his prime, but he was still pretty much the best opposition. A couple others arguably not prime.)
Just a ludicruously stacked resume.... don't see the comparison at all.Last edited by BrometheusBob.; 09-14-2015, 12:35 AM.Comment
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Laughable suggestion. There are literally dozens of names on Robinson's resume that have done more than Berto.
He fought 27 fights against 10 HOFers, and numerous top 3 contenders let alone top 10.
0 losses at WW and 0 losses at LW. He was a way better WW than a MW, and he was still a great MW.
EDIT: He did have one loss while he was a WW but I meant that he didn't lose to any WWs. That one loss was to Jake LaMotta, who weighed in officially at 160.5lbs, 16 more than Robinson. But he avenged that loss both while he was a WW and later when he moved up.Last edited by BrometheusBob.; 09-14-2015, 12:43 AM.Comment
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It takes beating at least 1 Prime ATG.
Floyd never did that.Comment
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All these threads do is expose how little boxing history the majority of Fl*mos actually know. They've no clue who Sammy Angott & Kid Gavilan are, don't know anything about Jake LaMotta beyond the fact that they made a movie about him & that he used to beat up his wife (that info comes in handy when it comes to deflecting any criticism away from Mayweather because of his domestic issues.)
But Floyd is a hundred billion & 0 in championship fights doe.Comment
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