What is Al Haymons end game? Predictions..

[Scipio2009]

He's made some bad mistakes.

He could have had Stevenson vs Hopkins on PBC, but he tried to be too clever, stalling BHop in the hope of getting another of his fighters lined up as mando for the winner, till BHop's deadline to face his IBF mando ran out and he fought Kovalev instead of Stevenson.

The Quillin fiasco was another big misjudgment by Haymon. He thought that Quillin would be good enough to easily win back the WBO title Uncle Al paid him to vacate. All he needed to do was line him up with a shot at Andy Lee and Quillin's "talent" would do the rest.

Haymon doesn't come from a boxing background. He may be a smart business man. But, IMO, he doesn't know a talented fighter from a hole in the ground. How else can you explain his deluded faith in Deontay Wilder as the saviour of the heavyweight division?

That's another bad eorror of judgement by Haymon.

Hopkins-Stevenson didn't happen because Bernard Hopkins wanted to get 75% of the money, with the fight being staged in Montreal (Stevenson's home venue) and the bulk of the money coming off of Canadian PPV (Stevenson's home market). All that other talk was "after the fact" spin by Hopkins.

And Haymon has a pretty good eye for talent, Errol Spence standing out as a pretty much "no duh" choice.

You don't think much of Deontay Wilder, which is fine; that's your opinion.

Still, Wilder's WBC world heavyweight champion, BoxRec rates him #4/6 in the division, ESPN rates him #4, ********* rates him #2, TBRB rates him as their #4 heavyweight, Ring Magazine rates him #3, Boxing News rates him #3, Sky Sports rates him #3, and basically every other credible source has him rated in the top 5 at heavyweight.

When you think the guy's a bum, yet every other credible source rates Wilder as having real ability, maybe you're the one who's mistaken.

[Mitchell Kane]

TV networks are looking for content especially live sports content so it is not a matter of if he will get them it is a matter of how much he pulls.

You're probably right, it may not be a question of it he will get offers, it'll be how much.

But the "how much" is a pretty important part of this, especially given all the recent reports of decreasing cable subscribers.

The PBC is still about two and a half years away from the end of these "time buys", so it'll be interesting to see where some of the networks are when these "time buys" are over and Haymon starts asking for real money...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...rks-post-gains

Disney Falls as Revenue Misses, Cable Profit Outlook Darkens

The company is facing two challenges: fewer subscribers at cable networks such as ESPN, its biggest business, and foreign exchange losses from the strong dollar that are cutting results for both cable TV and international theme parks. The warning unsettled investors accustomed to stellar sales and profit from the Burbank, California-based company.

Investors have become increasingly concerned about what kind of growth, if any, they can count on for ESPN going forward, said Paul Sweeney, a Bloomberg Intelligence analyst. This guidance cut will not allay any of those fears.

ESPN is wrestling with a shrinking subscriber base and rising program costs. The network's pay-TV customers declined 4.3 percent to 94.6 million last year from 98.8 million in 2012, according to SNL Kagan data.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/13256764/1/disney-dis-stock-slumped-on-espn-subscriber-losses.html

Disney (DIS) Stock Slumped on ESPN Subscriber Losses

Shares of The Walt Disney Co. (DIS - Get Report) closed down 0.33% to $107.16 on Friday as the company is seeing more cancellations among ESPN subscribers.

ESPN's subscription base declined by about 2% in 2015, The Wall Street Journal reported.

If ESPN subscriber declines accelerate by one percentage point in 2016, the potential $500 million decline will reflect the sensitivity of ESPN's profitability to small changes in subscriber growth amid a media landscape facing what could be massive disruption, the Journal added.

Besides Disney, losses at ESPN may cause a selloff across the media world, including the stocks of 21st Century Fox (FOXA) and CBS (CBS), Barron's reported.

With ESPN having hit peak penetration and now losing subscribers, operating leverage could be a drag on future margins, especially in a more fragmented sports market, Barclays added.

[Scipio2009]

What you seem to ignore is that investors will not continue to throw money in the garbage. THEY WANT A HEALTHY RETURN ON THEIR DOLLARS. Investors do not want to wait 10 YEARS to start turning a decent profit. Right now, they could make more money investing in absolutely anything. In fact, keeping their money in their mattress would be more profitable for them as they would not be losing any of it.

You constantly make the mistake of thinking that boxing is comparable to any major team sport or sports organization such as tennis. IT DOES NOT COMPARE.

... The money's already been put into the venture apparently and Waddell&Reed/CVC Capital waited for nearly 10 years to get their money out of Formula One; why is the PBC effort any different?

Floyd Mayweather just fought in a fight that generated $450m on US PPV, not counting the TV money from Canada/Mexico/UK/Germany/etc; the broadcasters, alone (Showtime/HBO), took home $40m on the fight.

Not entirely sure what the add revenue per show, or the net proceeds off of TV, would look like, but PBC, across the baskets of channels, will likely put on 50 shows in the shortened initial years, with that number going like going up to 70 TV broadcasts in 2016.

Net of $1m per show and PBC makes $70m for the year, with that number growing as the audience grows and PBC gets to charge more for their commercial spots (before considering the value of the event sponsorships). Every year, in perpetuity, more or less.

You seem to seriously underestimate the amount of money being put into discussion here.

[daggum]

... The money's already been put into the venture apparently and Waddell&Reed/CVC Capital waited for nearly 10 years to get their money out of Formula One; why is the PBC effort any different?

Floyd Mayweather just fought in a fight that generated $450m on US PPV, not counting the TV money from Canada/Mexico/UK/Germany/etc; the broadcasters, alone (Showtime/HBO), took home $40m on the fight.

Not entirely sure what the add revenue per show, or the net proceeds off of TV, would look like, but PBC, across the baskets of channels, will likely put on 50 shows in the shortened initial years, with that number going like going up to 70 TV broadcasts in 2016.

Net of $1m per show and PBC makes $70m for the year, with that number growing as the audience grows and PBC gets to charge more for their commercial spots (before considering the value of the event sponsorships). Every year, in perpetuity, more or less.

You seem to seriously underestimate the amount of money being put into discussion here.

so you don't know but they are making 1 million per show? where did you get this info? i hope you didn't just make it up. that would be strange and creepy.

[Scipio2009]

Yes we have gone over this time and time again and you still have zero understanding of how it works. All other sports leagues, even tennis and bowling, have ONE GOVERNING BODY. Boxing does not. Boxing never will have. The entire sport would have to be gutted and reorganized. Do you think that WBC or WBA or WBO or IBF or IBO would have a chance to get a network boxing contract? No, they would not.

The ONLY POSSIBLE CHANCE that Haymon could score a major deal would be to replace all the governing bodies with PBC and to sign all the fighters to exclusive contracts with PBC. He would have to introduce his own title belts and turn his back, and have all his fighters turn their backs, on over 100 years of boxing history and tradition and start from scratch.

Now doing that would cost Haymon many millions of dollars in his own personal bank accounts as he would no longer be taking a percentage of his fighters' purses as they would become his employees. Haymon is not about to do that.

IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

^^^^lol

The UFC has no governing body to speak of and just secured a deal that will pay them $700m for Fox Sports.

With Haymon managing/advising a rumored 200 fighters, in addition to the fighters he has access to through his relationships with the promoters he works with (DiBella, Marguiles, Michel, Brown, Mayweather, Hearn, etc) that aren't signed to him, what does Haymon have to worry about needing a governing body for?

PBC already doesn't acknowledge the specific organizations, though gladly willing to use their titles and lineage.

Any presumptive network is doing business with Haymon, not any of the governing bodies. lol

[Scipio2009]

And what exactly are they supposed to be willing to pay for? PBC has nothing to guarantee that they can continue to put on fights. They have no fighters with exclusive contracts. NONE. NOT ONE. So again... tell us all what value PBC has?

Haymon raised the investor money behind the PBC effort, and Haymon has the exclusive managerial/advisory deal with the slate of nearly 200 fighters. What the **** are you talking about?

Waddell&Reed aren't going to dump Haymon from the PBC effort, and Haymon isn't going to pull his own fighters from a multi-platforn deal that is likely to deliver his fighters 70 annual TV opportunities to showcase their skills.

[Scipio2009]

BUT THERE ARE NO CONTRACTS!!!!!! Do you not understand that??? That is like making an offer to buy an escort agency but telling the seller that he has to have Megan Fox, Scarlet Johansen, Katy Perry and other top starlets under contract. You cannot sell what you do not have. PBC has no fighters under contract. PBC will not get any fighters under contract as long as they are contracted to personal services contracts with Haymon. All their contracts with Haymon as manager or advisor would need to be cancelled before they could sign contracts with PBC.

Can you not understand this? Without exclusive fighters, PBC brand name is worthless. Damn you have a thick skull.

^^^ utter bull****

[Scipio2009]

Like I said this is tiresome and you certainly have not taught me anything. Once again you are speaking English but you are still just talking negative drivel and I haven't even been that positive here. Like I said his end game is to sell out this venture which will include everything related to him.

Maybe it works great or maybe he goes bankrupt or anywhere on the continuum between.

You seem to have a problem with disagreement and taking things ten steps beyond what is said.

You are stuck on what you think, which makes your comments about learning very funny because you refuse to understand anything going the other way acting like you know everything under the sun in relation to the subject at hand.

One thing I have learned in life that someone so sure they can't be wrong, is more than likely wrong. You have yourself convinced this won't work out, and can't accept the other side of that it could in fact work out very well.

You getting angry, talking hyperbole and name calling doesn't make your case any more sound. Relax you will live longer~

Don't waste your time with Barcham; for whatever reason, he has it in his heart that PBC is destined to fail and he's not going to give up that thought until the day comes when Al Haymon and whatever network signs the main content deal, sit together for a press conference to announce the deal to the public.

it is what it is.

[Scipio2009]

You're probably right, it may not be a question of it he will get offers, it'll be how much.

But the "how much" is a pretty important part of this, especially given all the recent reports of decreasing cable subscribers.

The PBC is still about two and a half years away from the end of these "time buys", so it'll be interesting to see where some of the networks are when these "time buys" are over and Haymon starts asking for real money...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...rks-post-gains

Disney Falls as Revenue Misses, Cable Profit Outlook Darkens

http://www.thestreet.com/story/13256764/1/disney-dis-stock-slumped-on-espn-subscriber-losses.html

Disney (DIS) Stock Slumped on ESPN Subscriber Losses

ESPN is whole different kettle of fish, especially compared with NBC/NBCSN, CBS/CBS Sports/(Showtime), or Fox/Fox Sports. ESPN is more HBO/Showtime/Starz than it is Bravo/USA Network, tbh

[Cinci Champ]

They chose to become boxers with all the risks that come with it. Don't come crying to me if they get hurt in the ring. Formula One and other race drivers take their lives and the lives of all their competitors, not to mention track side fans and pit crews and officials, into their hands in every race and they do not race twice or three or four times per year either. Do you whine and cry about the risks they take? How about the number of football players with severe brain injuries from their years in the sport? Many end up committing suicide, many end up destitute.

NO ONE FORCED ANY OF THESE ATHLETES TO MAKE THE CHOICES THEY MADE FOR THEIR LIVES. They chose to enter these professions for the millions of dollars they will make over their careers. They chose to accept the risks along with the rewards. And they are damn well rewarded for it.

Maybe you should save your bleeding heart for the 7/11 clerk who works for minimum wage on the overnight shift who gets shot by some druggie trying to score his next hit.

this whole no one is making them do it crap give me a break. you should still have more respect for the fighters and less for the promoters. i agree i think fans do seem entitled these fighters are risking their lives they should make as much money as humanly possible while doing it