What division would Andre Ward have fought in when 168 didn't exist?

[Szef]

They happen in fights, more in some fights than others. Ward didn't "pull an Ortiz" against Kessler as Freedom would like people to believe.

GTFO with your double standards. The fight was stopped due to the cuts that were caused by headbutts.

You got that wrong, bro. It's Ortiz who tried to pull an Ward, he was close, he tried his best but after all he's not as crafty as Ward in that regard.

[The Big Dunn]

GTFO with your double standards. The fight was stopped due to the cuts that were caused by headbutts.

You got that wrong, bro. It's Ortiz who tried to pull an Ward, he was close, he tried his best but after all he's not as crafty as Ward in that regard.

What double standard? Yes, Kessler got the cuts by 2 headbutts. The one in the 10th was nasty, I will concede that. Ward was still well ahead and was outboxing him from the beginning.

Did you think they were like Ortiz style butts?

[Szef]

What double standard? Yes, Kessler got the cuts by 2 headbutts. The one in the 10th was nasty, I will concede that. Ward was still well ahead and was outboxing him from the beginning.

Did you think they were like Ortiz style butts?

He got hit with headbutts many more times, and you know it. There was a video on YouTube where the author counted every headbutt from that fight, I don't remember the exact number but I'm pretty the final result was 40 + headbutts.

My point is, headbutts was the reason why Kessler - Ward got stopped, can't say the same about Ortiz - Floyd.

[The Big Dunn]

He got hit with headbutts many more times, and you know it. There was a video on YouTube where the author counted every headbutt from that fight, I don't remember the exact number but I'm pretty the final result was 40 + headbutts.

My point is, headbutts was the reason why Kessler - Ward got stopped, can't say the same about Ortiz - Floyd.

Youtube tends to be unreliable when the person making the video is upset that their guy lost. Heads clashing incidentally are not "on purpose headbutts".

The 10th round I will concede looked to be on purpose.

Ok, I understand that point. Mine is that while cuts was why the fight was stopped and Kessler got those cuts from butts, Freedom implying all of them were purposeful is a huge stretch.

[Barcham]

I voted for 175 but it really makes no difference. The question should not be which division he would have fought in but what his record would have been. He certainly would not have been undefeated at this point and would most likely have a number of defeats on his record.

[Sweet Pea 50]

I just rewatched the Ward-Kessler fight.

When the fight was on the outside, Ward was getting the better of Kessler as well. The up-down jabs, lead rights, feints to set up power jabs followed by right hands. Hell, Ward even switched to southpaw at one point.

40 fucking headbutts.

[Szef]

I just rewatched the Ward-Kessler fight.

When the fight was on the outside, Ward was getting the better of Kessler as well. The up-down jabs, lead rights, feints to set up power jabs followed by right hands. Hell, Ward even switched to southpaw at one point.

40 fucking headbutts.

I'm on the round 2. Counted 5 so far. Most of them were very subtle, while in the clinch, but they did happen. And headbutts are illegal, even if used by a guy who switches stances during the fight.

Ward was outboxing Kessler, nobody is denying that.

Will come back with the final result.

[Build That Wall]

USA is a country, California isn't a country.

Ward had ALL his super six fights in his home country, and all but one in California.

Everybody else had to fight in their opponents' countries.

It's important because Jack Reiss permitted Ward to deliberately head butt in the fight with Kessler. Ward also used dirty tactics against Allan Green (I've never seen so much clamping of an opponent's arm in any other fight), Sakio Bika (the crooked ref called Bika's fouls but not Ward's) and Arthur Abraham (head butts).

Do you believe in fighters simply put, in being naturally gifted for the sport.

[Build That Wall]

I just rewatched the Ward-Kessler fight.

When the fight was on the outside, Ward was getting the better of Kessler as well. The up-down jabs, lead rights, feints to set up power jabs followed by right hands. Hell, Ward even switched to southpaw at one point.

40 fucking headbutts.

Ward simply put was too much for Kessler.

[The Hammer]

Ward simply put was too much for Kessler.

Kessler wasn't ready for the head butts, for the hitting off the break, for the repeated illegal clamping of his arm, nor for the rotten referee Jack Reiss yelling at him to distract him.