Loeffer explains to everyone what really happened with ward

[Scipio2009]

Ward loves telling people how he will fight so and so but when it's time to sack up, he talks his way out of it.

Ward fights on Saturday, and will likely follow that up with a fight at 168 before the Winter is out.

If Golovkin doesn't end up fighting either Lara or Ward by the end of the year (or early next year), instead choosing to continue on with his can crushing (Heiland-Johnson is likely happening in the near future, removing those two names from the discussion), I hope you keep with the talking.

that's all I ask

[HeroBando]

Roc Nation makes one move, a move that they explicitly have spoken of as a move that they made to get noticed, and you've taken that into some belief that Jay-Z is willing to put up $10m to stage Ward-Golovkin at the 40/40 Club in front of 100 of his associates. GTFOH.

They also signed Cotto and Ward to huge contracts. One of these is a guaranteed money loser. So if these guys don't think there's financial sense in it, who the hell will put up the money?

[HeroBando]

They might not be stars by themselves but together it would be a big enough event. If they stuck it on PPV it would sell atleast 300k.

Lol. You dont follow much boxing? Canelo, Cotto, JMM's last PPV barely beat that, and these guys have been on numerous ppvs. And have big ethnic followings. Canelo most popular Mexican, Cotto most popular PR. JMM #1 Mexican boxer, coming off KO of century over Pac

Like the other guy said, this might not break 100k

[Barcham]

They also signed Cotto and Ward to huge contracts. One of these is a guaranteed money loser. So if these guys don't think there's financial sense in it, who the hell will put up the money?

I'd like to know how exactly these super fantastic contracts that Cotto and Ward signed with Roc Nation actually work. Cotto signed for 50 million for three fights, so that's roughly 17 million per fight. But his purse for the Geale fight was reported as $2 million. So does Roc Nation pay him 17 million on top of that or do they add $15 million to what the purse paid out?

If Roc Nation is contracted to pay a guaranteed amount to a fighter, what difference does it make to the fighter how much his purse is? Why should Ward not take the GGG fight for whatever they are offering if he is guaranteed X amount from Roc Nation no matter what the purse is?

I understand the contract Showtime had with Mayweather because those were all PPV fights and while it was a risk, it was a calculated one to take as Showtime was the broadcaster of the fights and knew what they could afford to offer. But Roc Nation is only a promoter and has no real control over the broadcast of a fight or the amount of money it will be bringing in so I have no idea how they can offer these contracts to any fighter.

[HeroBando]

I'd like to know how exactly these super fantastic contracts that Cotto and Ward signed with Roc Nation actually work. Cotto signed for 50 million for three fights, so that's roughly 17 million per fight. But his purse for the Geale fight was reported as $2 million. So does Roc Nation pay him 17 million on top of that or do they add $15 million to what the purse paid out?

If Roc Nation is contracted to pay a guaranteed amount to a fighter, what difference does it make to the fighter how much his purse is? Why should Ward not take the GGG fight for whatever they are offering if he is guaranteed X amount from Roc Nation no matter what the purse is?

I understand the contract Showtime had with Mayweather because those were all PPV fights and while it was a risk, it was a calculated one to take as Showtime was the broadcaster of the fights and knew what they could afford to offer. But Roc Nation is only a promoter and has no real control over the broadcast of a fight or the amount of money it will be bringing in so I have no idea how they can offer these contracts to any fighter.

yeah i know, doesnt make sense to me either. but if ward was getting 2m for a tuneup with goossen and wanted much better treatment, you know its a "loss leader" for roc nation

[Scipio2009]

So what? It's 2 hours away from London where Ward initially agreed to take the fight. It'd be the same ring, ref, judges, tv...

Ward doesn't have a problem making Kessler, Green, Bika, Dawson, Smith all fight him in his hometown.

And I don't want to hear crap that Andre's #1 and shouldn't have to fight in another guy's hometown. Kessler was #1 with the title and Andre was his mando when Kessler agreed to face him in Oakland.

.... Andre Ward already beat Carl Froch, rather decisively; the Kessler scenario is markedly different, for the simple fact that Andre Ward brought the TV (Showtime was backing him and Andre Dirrell) and Kessler likely took home the lion's share of the money netted from the fight.

London is relatively neutral ground; the fact that you seem to believe that Ward, after already beating the man, should've then gone to Froch's hometown, for even or short money, is ridiculous.

[aldo5408]

I'd like to know how exactly these super fantastic contracts that Cotto and Ward signed with Roc Nation actually work. Cotto signed for 50 million for three fights, so that's roughly 17 million per fight. But his purse for the Geale fight was reported as $2 million. So does Roc Nation pay him 17 million on top of that or do they add $15 million to what the purse paid out?

If Roc Nation is contracted to pay a guaranteed amount to a fighter, what difference does it make to the fighter how much his purse is? Why should Ward not take the GGG fight for whatever they are offering if he is guaranteed X amount from Roc Nation no matter what the purse is?

I understand the contract Showtime had with Mayweather because those were all PPV fights and while it was a risk, it was a calculated one to take as Showtime was the broadcaster of the fights and knew what they could afford to offer. But Roc Nation is only a promoter and has no real control over the broadcast of a fight or the amount of money it will be bringing in so I have no idea how they can offer these contracts to any fighter.

Andre said he got a multi million signing bonus. I'm guessing cotto got a even bigger bonus
And roc nation got cotto a bunch of endorsements

[Eastcoast]

.... Andre Ward already beat Carl Froch, rather decisively; the Kessler scenario is markedly different, for the simple fact that Andre Ward brought the TV (Showtime was backing him and Andre Dirrell) and Kessler likely took home the lion's share of the money netted from the fight.

London is relatively neutral ground; the fact that you seem to believe that Ward, after already beating the man, should've then gone to Froch's hometown, for even or short money, is ridiculous.

Prior to Ward/Kessler, Kessler had been on primetime premium more times than Ward, with his fights vs Calzaghe and Andrade. Ward was a Shobox/ESPN fighter at that point. His Showtime debut was Shelby Pudwill as co-feature with Kessler/Perdomo. The S6 concept was actually brought to Showtime by Sauerland, Kessler's promoter. The fact remains, Ward has no problem with other guys coming to his hometown. And regardless of the fact that Andre one-sided Froch 3.5 years ago, Froch is still the clear bread winner with Ward having no other lucrative options. The differences between Nottingham & London are trite.

[Scipio2009]

They also signed Cotto and Ward to huge contracts. One of these is a guaranteed money loser. So if these guys don't think there's financial sense in it, who the hell will put up the money?

-Roc Nation signed Miguel Cotto Promotions to a partnership deal, securing them three bouts from Miguel Cotto, but also putting a lot of money in with Cotto's promotional company, which will be focused on concerts/events in Puerto Rico and likely won't get pushed until after Cotto's done fighting. (People hear the rumored '$50m for three fights' and lose their heads).

-Not even rumors have been put forward for what Ward's contract with Roc Nation looks like (Settling the GoossenTutor deal with them being more than happy with the outcome likely ate into whatever the package for Ward ended up being). Beyond that, Andre Ward is only 31 and with minimal wear on his body (under 150 amateur fights, nearly three years out of the ring as a pro [adding up the promotional dispute layoff and his injury breaks], and is physically dedicated to boxing), Ward can easily end up with 10 fights before he turns 36.

Without any idea of how either deal is actually structured, how can you flatly say that either deal is a guaranteed money loser?

How is a, let's assume, 10-fight deal with Andre Ward a guaranteed money loser even at $50m (If Ward can get through two fights this year, he'd head into 2016 as the p4p best fighter in the sport, a winnable fight against Golovkin in the que, and being the type of clean-cut and marketable guy that the sport is likely to turn to with Floyd riding off into the sunset. Ward does what most people expect him to do against HBO's boogeyman and, as long as he stays active, he likely emerges as a bankable star with 7-8 fights still waiting on the deal)? $5m per Ward fight (TV money, live gate/site fee, event sponsorship) isn't all that ridiculous an idea when you think about it.

Even the Cotto deal deserves another look; the concert details will likely cover a significant amount of that money, but Roc Nation still has three fights with the sport's third/fourth biggest star to leverage and establish their company as a boxing powerhouse (having Cotto as their trump card puts HBO and every fighter/promoter not with PBC over a barrell; if Cotto is somehow able to actually beat Canelo, Roc Nation is holding HBO up for ransom).

Nothing's a sure thing, but Roc Nation is taking the calculated risk in those situations.

Why is K2 doing different? Golovkin needs a big fight to finally get that chance to become a true star; what better way to do that then knocking off the second best p4p fighter on the planet? K2 may lose some money on the fight (HBO putting up a good amount of money for the US rights, K2 selling the fight internationally, and a Golovkin-sized take on the live gate are all decent-sized revenue streams), but they have the chance to emerge with a true PPV attraction on the deal.

Why does every promoter but Roc Nation have to make guaranteed money on every fight card? Makes no damn sense.

[Scipio2009]

I'd like to know how exactly these super fantastic contracts that Cotto and Ward signed with Roc Nation actually work. Cotto signed for 50 million for three fights, so that's roughly 17 million per fight. But his purse for the Geale fight was reported as $2 million. So does Roc Nation pay him 17 million on top of that or do they add $15 million to what the purse paid out?

If Roc Nation is contracted to pay a guaranteed amount to a fighter, what difference does it make to the fighter how much his purse is? Why should Ward not take the GGG fight for whatever they are offering if he is guaranteed X amount from Roc Nation no matter what the purse is?

I understand the contract Showtime had with Mayweather because those were all PPV fights and while it was a risk, it was a calculated one to take as Showtime was the broadcaster of the fights and knew what they could afford to offer. But Roc Nation is only a promoter and has no real control over the broadcast of a fight or the amount of money it will be bringing in so I have no idea how they can offer these contracts to any fighter.

$30m to Miguel Cotto Promotions (to finance the events/concerts effort in Puerto Rico), with the guaranteed $20m for the three fights (a la Floyd's deal with Showtime, where Showtime has 6 fights to basically bring in $250m in PPV revenue); short take on the first fight, the monster PPV with Canelo for the second fight, and a farewell/retirement fight in New York/Puerto Rico likely totals up to $20m rather easily.