Why is Cotto-Canelo being billed as the next "Super fight"? Canelo ain't elite.

[Beater_of_ass]

Those 3 fights are far bigger than Cotto/Canelo but they are in no way shape or form "super fights". I get they both have big fanbases and its a as big a fight of the PR/mexican rivalry as has been since ODH/Trinidad. But a super fight?

We as diehard fans do ourselves a disservice by putting fights on a level they do not belong. What is wrong with this just being a big fight?

Because it is more than a big fight, it's the definition of a super fight. Talent does make a fight a super fight, well talent alone doesn't. Really it's kind of a joke to say because it isn't Floyd/Pac level nothing else is a "super fight." May/Pac was ABOVE superfight.

[The Gambler1981]

It is a pretty big fight, I am kind of interested to see how big it gets.

Canelo's weight BS along with Cotto's being the man at middleweight but not dealing with the big elephant in the room kind of damages it's legitimacy. It is a fight between two very high end fighters even with that, but for example if the fight was for who was the man at 154 it would be more meaningful in the context of the sport (or if Canelo had beaten up a couple middleweights).


It is still a very big fight though and should be good but I could see how it could be a bit bigger and more meaningful.

[-PBP-]

I don't understand how Cotto/Canelo does not meet p4p criteria

P4P implies that all things being equal, the top 10-20 are the best in the sport and if all fighters were the same size, the top 10-20 would rise to the top. Canelo and Cotto certainly are in the top of the sport. Weightclass by weightclass if you imagine that these guys are the same size, Canelo and Cotto would wipe through most of boxers. I don't think it's a leap. I mean, lets look at Ring's top 10:

Floyd - Canelo and Cotto will remain competitive, that's it. Easy enough
Gonzalez - Canelo and Cotto could either win or lose against Roman - he belongs here
Klit - he's as basic as it gets with no chin - Canelo and Cotto would both be too much for him and once they connect on that chin, he'd go to sleep.
GGG - Both could win, both could lose
Rigo - He has a shaky chin but exceptional skills - Canelo and Cotto could wear him out and take him out late, or he could simply outbox them for a 9-3
Pac - In this stage of his career, Canelo and Cotto would just blitz him and KO him late. Prime Pac rises above the rest - but 2015 Pac is no longer prime
Froch - These three would engage in a war of attrition with a MD/SD going in either way.
Kovalev - Kov does great things and his power is the great equalizer - he could take them out early, but if it goes the distance, Canelo and Cotto's class could get them a hard earned win
Crawford - he's the real deal and shares alot of similarities with Cotto and Canelo. Can box, slug and show finesse. His footwork would get him a W over Canelo and keep him in the fight against Cotto. These fights could go either way
Yamanaka - he's got good power and solid boxing skills - Canelo and Cotto are too much though and too skilled and would each get a late KO

If you look at other divisional top 10s, how many could you truly think, if they were all the same size would beat Cotto and Canelo? Wilder would get sparked if Canelo and Cotto can make it past three. JMM is beyond washed up, Bradley does many things good, nothing great and doesn't have the power or skillset to keep Canelo and Cotto away. Ward would most likely spoil his way to a win, but we don't know if Ward from the S6 still exists anymore. Garcia, as much as I like him is not polished enough for Canelo or Cotto and Mattyse just isn't good enough. I like Walters, but want to see more of him. Lomo could certainly beat Canelo and Cotto once he polishes up some more - he's legit. Inoue, I'm high on, but I am higher on Cuadras so if they fight, we'll see if either are true p4p talents.

When you objectively look at all the current fighters and pretend they are all the same size, it's hard to imagine 10-20 fighters better than Cotto and Canelo; so this fight definitely has p4p implications.

And they are both ppv and cross-cultural stars, so that criteria is met.

This fight might be super fight in the sense that Pac/May was or Tyson/Lewis, but it definitiely is in the same ball-park as Trinidad/DLH was. The only difference is that the story of this fight is aged past-prime superstar vs prime superstar

So far Canelo is 0-1 in this scenario, if he goes for 0-2 we could come to the conclusion that he will never be considered for ATG categories and HoF would be a very hard argument to make. This would be his DLH/Chavez Sr esque fight and if he can't win, he can't hit that next level like his boss did. (and for those keeping score at home, I'm not equating Cotto to Chavez Sr, just the parallels, I know reading comprehension is hard)

Hopefully, my point is clear

I get your point. I just think a true "super fight" such as May/Pac, Leonard/Duran, involves two of the best if not THE absolute best fighters in the sport. If you look throughout history, this rarely happened.

You have #1/#2 pound for pound fights like Chavez/Whitaker where the relevance is there but the star power isn't.

Then you have fights like Lewis/Tyson where the star power is there but the winner wouldn't be considered the absolute best in the sport.

I think Cotto/Canelo falls in that latter category. True "Super fights" only come around once every 15-20 years, IMO.

[icha]

Cotto has fought the top fighters of his time and had some success, fair enough. But Canelo's biggest wins are against Austin Trout and James Kirkland, neither of whom are near top 10 P4P.

This fight isn't remotely on the level of Mayweather-Pacquiao.

why dont you add a poll???

[The Big Dunn]

Because it is more than a big fight, it's the definition of a super fight. Talent does make a fight a super fight, well talent alone doesn't. Really it's kind of a joke to say because it isn't Floyd/Pac level nothing else is a "super fight." May/Pac was ABOVE superfight.

I didn't post that, did I? I posted that the cotto/canelo fight wasn't on the level of 3 much bigger fights that I also said were not super fights.

The definition of a super fight, GTFO. This fight pales in comparison to much bigger fights that also missed the mark of a super fight. It's not more than a big fight.

What is wrong with it just being a big fight?

[JmH Reborn]

I get your point. I just think a true "super fight" such as May/Pac, Leonard/Duran, involves two of the best if not THE absolute best fighters in the sport. If you look throughout history, this rarely happened.

You have #1/#2 pound for pound fights like Chavez/Whitaker where the relevance is there but the star power isn't.

Then you have fights like Lewis/Tyson where the star power is there but the winner wouldn't be considered the absolute best in the sport.

I think Cotto/Canelo falls in that latter category. True "Super fights" only come around once every 15-20 years, IMO.

Ok I get you

Level 1: Fight -- Fighter A against Fighter B for divisional ranking or title fight
Level 2: A Big Fight -- This could be PPV fight between stars (Cotto/Martinez or any other fight similar to this; Mayweather vs whomever; Pac vs whomever)
Level 3: A Super Fight -- Two PPV Stars going at it (Cotto/Canelo; Trinidad/DLH)
Level 4: Cross-over fight -- A fight that the casuals/hardcores and Skip Bayless are into (Mayweather/Pacquiao)

For those level 2 and 3 fights, I'm calling my friends over and have BBQs and *****. For those level 4 fights, I'm even bring my grandmom to the houseparty

[Luilun]

Cotto has fought the top fighters of his time and had some success, fair enough. But Canelo's biggest wins are against Austin Trout and James Kirkland, neither of whom are near top 10 P4P.

This fight isn't remotely on the level of Mayweather-Pacquiao.

So promoting Pacquaio after being knock out and fighting guys at Jr Welter was better it was like trying to promote Pacqauio as a prime fighter when people with half a brain knew he was wash up and being protected to cash out. If Pacquiao had fought any young buck like Porter , Thurman or Brook he would have been knocked out ending this fairy tale of fight of the century

[Mr.Fantastic]

Canelo and Cotto are kinda elite, they're just not great.

[DreamerUSA]

Cotto does have the W over Shane Mosley...

While Shane was still one of the better welterweights he was'nt p4p at the time.

[Mr.Fantastic]

nope. not even close. Cotto is a battled tested ATG on his way to Hall of Fame. whereas ODH AND Trinida were at their respective primes. So I hate to bust a nut on canelito fans but a Cotto win or loss doesn't do much to add or detract from his legacy...just his bank account!!!