Why is Cotto-Canelo being billed as the next "Super fight"? Canelo ain't elite.

[boliodogs]

None of those were super fights dude. Canelo is not good enough to be in a super fight at this stage of his career. He has a huge following and sells tickets, but to be in a "super" fight takes more IMO. Cotto is a HOF IMO, but he is not good enough to be in a super fight either. I am in no way disrespecting or discrediting either.

Super fights are matchups that get interest outside of the boxing and sports world into the mainstream. You usually need one or both fighters to transcend boxing. I don't think Cotto or Canelo transcend the sport, maybe they do in their communities.

For example, Hagler/Hearns was an incredible big fight, but it wasn't IMO a "super" fight like Hagler/Leonard or Hearns/Leonard. IMO niether Hagler/Duran nor Hearns/Duran were "super" fights either.

I think we throw terms like "super fights" and "ATG" around too loosely. IMO there is a huge difference between a "big" fight and a "super" fight.

If to be a superfight a fight must be of interest to people who don't care about boxing then it's not a superfight but to most boxing fans it is a superfight. If Canelo beats Cotto as I think he will, then he is a better fighter than Cotto because Cotto is fighting better now than he ever did before.

[The Big Dunn]

If to be a superfight a fight must be of interest to people who don't care about boxing then it's not a superfight but to most boxing fans it is a superfight. If Canelo beats Cotto as I think he will, then he is a better fighter than Cotto because Cotto is fighting better now than he ever did before.

This is in no way a super fight to most fans. It's a big fight, yes. Why do we need to elevate fights to a level they are not? What purpose does that serve?

[JmH Reborn]

A true Super Fight has two requirements:

1. Pound for pound relevance
2. Individual stardom of at least one of the 2 fighters

Cotto/Canelo fails to meet the first criteria. Neither guy is a top 5 or maybe even top 10 pound for pound fighter right now. But it definitely meets the 2nd criteria which is why it is a big fight that everybody is looking forward to.

I don't understand how Cotto/Canelo does not meet p4p criteria

P4P implies that all things being equal, the top 10-20 are the best in the sport and if all fighters were the same size, the top 10-20 would rise to the top. Canelo and Cotto certainly are in the top of the sport. Weightclass by weightclass if you imagine that these guys are the same size, Canelo and Cotto would wipe through most of boxers. I don't think it's a leap. I mean, lets look at Ring's top 10:

Floyd - Canelo and Cotto will remain competitive, that's it. Easy enough
Gonzalez - Canelo and Cotto could either win or lose against Roman - he belongs here
Klit - he's as basic as it gets with no chin - Canelo and Cotto would both be too much for him and once they connect on that chin, he'd go to sleep.
GGG - Both could win, both could lose
Rigo - He has a shaky chin but exceptional skills - Canelo and Cotto could wear him out and take him out late, or he could simply outbox them for a 9-3
Pac - In this stage of his career, Canelo and Cotto would just blitz him and KO him late. Prime Pac rises above the rest - but 2015 Pac is no longer prime
Froch - These three would engage in a war of attrition with a MD/SD going in either way.
Kovalev - Kov does great things and his power is the great equalizer - he could take them out early, but if it goes the distance, Canelo and Cotto's class could get them a hard earned win
Crawford - he's the real deal and shares alot of similarities with Cotto and Canelo. Can box, slug and show finesse. His footwork would get him a W over Canelo and keep him in the fight against Cotto. These fights could go either way
Yamanaka - he's got good power and solid boxing skills - Canelo and Cotto are too much though and too skilled and would each get a late KO

If you look at other divisional top 10s, how many could you truly think, if they were all the same size would beat Cotto and Canelo? Wilder would get sparked if Canelo and Cotto can make it past three. JMM is beyond washed up, Bradley does many things good, nothing great and doesn't have the power or skillset to keep Canelo and Cotto away. Ward would most likely spoil his way to a win, but we don't know if Ward from the S6 still exists anymore. Garcia, as much as I like him is not polished enough for Canelo or Cotto and Mattyse just isn't good enough. I like Walters, but want to see more of him. Lomo could certainly beat Canelo and Cotto once he polishes up some more - he's legit. Inoue, I'm high on, but I am higher on Cuadras so if they fight, we'll see if either are true p4p talents.

When you objectively look at all the current fighters and pretend they are all the same size, it's hard to imagine 10-20 fighters better than Cotto and Canelo; so this fight definitely has p4p implications.

And they are both ppv and cross-cultural stars, so that criteria is met.

This fight might be super fight in the sense that Pac/May was or Tyson/Lewis, but it definitiely is in the same ball-park as Trinidad/DLH was. The only difference is that the story of this fight is aged past-prime superstar vs prime superstar

So far Canelo is 0-1 in this scenario, if he goes for 0-2 we could come to the conclusion that he will never be considered for ATG categories and HoF would be a very hard argument to make. This would be his DLH/Chavez Sr esque fight and if he can't win, he can't hit that next level like his boss did. (and for those keeping score at home, I'm not equating Cotto to Chavez Sr, just the parallels, I know reading comprehension is hard)

Hopefully, my point is clear

[JoeKidd]

Not elite, but he comes to fight. 2 guys that let it all hang out. And charismatic. Best fight out there right now.

[The Big Dunn]

All of those are super-fights, Floyd/Manny was the "fight" of the century. Cotto/Canelo is a superfight, but that's because of their popularity. Canelo is a B class fighter.

Those 3 fights are far bigger than Cotto/Canelo but they are in no way shape or form "super fights". I get they both have big fanbases and its a as big a fight of the PR/mexican rivalry as has been since ODH/Trinidad. But a super fight?

We as diehard fans do ourselves a disservice by putting fights on a level they do not belong. What is wrong with this just being a big fight?

[Nay_Sayer]

Now I get what you're saying, but neither guy has ever beaten a p4p guy, not just Canelo. I don't consider either of them elite. Neither has ever reigned over a division or even been considered the man in a division. Even so. This is a fight I'm looking forward to because it should be exciting.

Cotto does have the W over Shane Mosley...

[DreamerUSA]

Respectfully, I think Wlad v wilder, because its a HWT fight, is a lot closer to Floyd/Manny than Cotto/Canelo is.

Kind of running out of time on building that super fight proportions imo. Big fight obviously, but Wilder isn't really built as a brand to the casual fan as of yet.

[BWC]

Cotto has fought the top fighters of his time and had some success, fair enough. But Canelo's biggest wins are against Austin Trout and James Kirkland, neither of whom are near top 10 P4P.

This fight isn't remotely on the level of Mayweather-Pacquiao.

Lara was a bigger win than anything Cotto has produced in say......ever

[Nay_Sayer]

nope. not even close. Cotto is a battled tested ATG on his way to Hall of Fame. whereas ODH AND Trinida were at their respective primes. So I hate to bust a nut on canelito fans but a Cotto win or loss doesn't do much to add or detract from his legacy...just his bank account!!!

Cotto makes it to the HOF but an ATG he is NOT...

[BWC]

Kind of running out of time on building that super fight proportions imo. Big fight obviously, but Wilder isn't really built as a brand to the casual fan as of yet.

Wlad/Wilder both put up big numbers on Showtime and HBO. We'll see if that translates to PPV, but that will be a very big fight..