Comments Thread For: Roman Gonzalez-Giovani Segura in Play For The Fall

[buddyguns]

1. Juan Francisco Estrada schooled Brian Viloria coming off of wins over Julio Cesar Miranda, Omar Nino Romero, Giovani Segura, and Hernan Marquez (In other words all the lower weight top dogs)

2. Milan Melindo was an undefeated top contender. Not some 28 loss donut vendor type that Gonzalez loves to fight.

3. Richie Mepranum is the same level as Oscar Blanquet and Rocky Fuentes types, which is fine once in a while, not every single fight like Gonzalez. P4P doe, huh?

4. Giovani Segura was coming off of a nice string of wins over Jonathan Gonzalez, Hernan Marquez, and Felipe Salguero when Estrada came along and thrashed him.

5. Joebert Alvarez was an undefeated prospect. Again, not some 28 loss donut vendor.

6. Rommel Asenjo was not the best competition, but again, not some 28 loss donut vendor. And Asenjo was a late replacement for top contender Froilan Saludar.

at the bold. Mr. Left-Overs Gonzalez fought Rocky Fuentes AFTER Amnat Ruenrueng beat him.

Just like Gonzalez fought Oscar Blanquet right after Akira Yaegashi beat him, and he fought Juan Kantun after David Sanchez beat him, and he fought Juan Purisima after Artem Dalakian beat him.

4 of Gonzalez's last 7 opponents were coming off of losses, and 1 of the 3 opponents coming off of wins had 28 losses, . The other 2 opponents were Akira Yaegashi and Edgar Sosa, both of which I have no problem with.

You know how many of Estrada's last 6 opponents since fighting Gonzalez were coming off of losses? 0.

And you know who Estrada is rumored to fight next? Hernan Marquez. If he does fight Marquez I'll give him no credit for a Marquez win other than it being a good name on his resume because Marquez got thrashed by Segura and Arrroyo and is shot to s**t.

But according to you Johnriel Casimero and McWilliams Arroyo = Juan Purisima and Valentin Leon, .

Keep crying, ******.

I dig your little fancy fact crunching session, now let's look at what I said. I stated that if any of those fighters where scheduled for Gonzalez, he would be ridiculed. Truth! When all of those opponents where scheduled for Estrada, I already knew the outcome. Why would anyone think that Gonzalez wouldn't destroy any of them? I also at no point compared Casimero to Leon. Just a gross exaggeration by a man child who can't comprehend simple reading and writing skills. And by the way, thanks for forming a good boxing debate with name calling.

Here's my return...go get your mom pregnant so you can have a nipple to suck on chump! I'm always ready for the backfire from an illiterate cholo.

[buddyguns]

Listen, the only reason I criticize Segura as a potential match up for Roman is because Segura is coming off of a loss last September and hasn't fought since. You may claim double standards but you fail to see that I'm a Roman fan myself.

I was all for the Estrada vs Segura showdown back then, but that's primarily because Segura was on a comeback trail after blasting past Hernan Marquez, Gonzalez and a tough Saludar. Not only did Estrada outclass him but pummeled him into submission, yet this is currently a potential match up for the pound for pound star of the division? Tell me, how is that not laughable?

Regarding his record, I have always praised his Yaegashi win and Sosa, although not great, was a decent win itself. Apart from those wins he has nothing else of note in a lot more than a few years.

Now, if he was fighting the Asenjo's and alvarez's of the division, I wouldn't mind so much neither. Do I praise Estrada for said wins? Not at all, but it sure beats taking on fighters the likes of Leon Valentin, doesn't it?

I agree, Amnat would most likely lose to Roman, but an upset is not out of the question. Amnat has accomplished and faced stiff competition since acquiring his belt not too long ago, although he has been put down by lesser punchers, his style would be intriguing and his rank would validate Roman as the true and undisputed number one flyweight in the division, if he gets past him. For now, Estrada and Amnat have yet to face as many no names or washed up fighters as Roman. in fact you're right, Fuentes was beat by Amnat long before Roman blasted through him... What had he done or achieve in order to get a shot at Roman after losing to Amnat? What did Sosa do to get the shot at Roman since losing to Yaegashi? What has Segura done since his loss to Estrada to even deserve being eyed?

Naoya has done in eight fights what Roman accomplished in 20 plus, isn't that bothersome? You can attempt to belittle Naoya's great feats but that doesn't immediatly tarnish his accomplishments in any way, shape or form.

I guarantee you no one would complain if Roman actually took on fighters with a pulse or actual shot, but truth is he isn't. You can't complain about Roman not getting credit for taking on fights or fighters he doesn't even mention, while continuing to believe that criticism against him is all about double standards.




I am a fan, I'm just not gonna sit there and act as if he's actually doing anything in a stacked division.
Re read my books, volumes 1 through 5, regarding the matter(they can be found throughout this thread) before attempting to make a repetitive, pointless argument. Roman is the goods, his opponents aren't.

Tell me, how great was Sosa this past Saturday. To me, he was slow, predictable and defenseless. Nothing but a showcase, just like his previous two fights against Fuentes, Valentin and a possible future showcase against Segura..


"You hatin doe, bet you'd be his number one fan if he was Mexican doe"

Aztekkas, you know that I always respect your knowledge and point of view. You have to recognize though that there are very few entertaining fights left on paper for Gonzalez. I don't care if it's someone coming off a win, a loss, undefeated, three time champion, 40 losses, 80 wins, or a prodigy. More than likely he's gonna be trashed for the fight either before or after he wins. Truthfully, out of all of the possible fights for him, the one that I want to see most is Mthalane due to the styles.

Looking at it all in the end, all of the he fought him **** is getting old with me. I'm sure that in your life you've seen an alleged shot fighter win when he wasn't supposed to. I'm sure that you've seen a young champion used to send an old fighter off in the sunset. This is all part of the business of boxing and I accept it at this point. Anything can happen when two men step in the ring and that's all that matters at the end of the day.

As for Inoue, it's great what he's accomplished at this point. I don't know how his accomplishments could be troublesome though. Everyone gets where they're going in their own time. I don't for a second think that he's had the level of fights that Gonzalez or Estrada have had yet. He needs that high level fight so that we can see what he's made of first. Cuadras would be the perfect candidate for that task.

[SkillspayBills]

Valentin still had 25 plus losses over Jorge, in fact you can say Romero was a novice and this was when Leo was still considered a prospect himself. Add to the fact that Roman fought such an atrocious opponent just this year, keep in mind this is the man many claim to be top five pound for pound. No matter how you flip it or put it, that's a horrible note.

Records may not mean much when fighters carve out a name for themselves as gatekeepers or sturdy journeymen to test prospects, but not when facing a 3 division world champion who's considerd amongst the elite. Tell me, what has Valentin done to place him amongst the names you mentioned? Atleast Rogers and Boone tested their opponents with their power, what exactly did Roman gain from beating Leon down?

So you're telling me you're better off watching a pound for pound world talent beat down overmatched opponents simply because they drive buses and not taxis? Wow, massive step up I see.

So we had a thread a while back where you mentioned all the Estrada fights I should watch (I did). I was wondering something that I think you would know the answer to. After Estrada and Roman battled it out the winner was supposed to face Viloria since they were on his undercard. Why didn't Roman face him but instead Estrada did and beat him.

[Nicoya415]

Listen, the only reason I criticize Segura as a potential match up for Roman is because Segura is coming off of a loss last September and hasn't fought since. You may claim double standards but you fail to see that I'm a Roman fan myself.

I was all for the Estrada vs Segura showdown back then, but that's primarily because Segura was on a comeback trail after blasting past Hernan Marquez, Gonzalez and a tough Saludar. Not only did Estrada outclass him but pummeled him into submission, yet this is currently a potential match up for the pound for pound star of the division? Tell me, how is that not laughable?

Regarding his record, I have always praised his Yaegashi win and Sosa, although not great, was a decent win itself. Apart from those wins he has nothing else of note in a lot more than a few years.

Now, if he was fighting the Asenjo's and alvarez's of the division, I wouldn't mind so much neither. Do I praise Estrada for said wins? Not at all, but it sure beats taking on fighters the likes of Leon Valentin, doesn't it?

I agree, Amnat would most likely lose to Roman, but an upset is not out of the question. Amnat has accomplished and faced stiff competition since acquiring his belt not too long ago, although he has been put down by lesser punchers, his style would be intriguing and his rank would validate Roman as the true and undisputed number one flyweight in the division, if he gets past him. For now, Estrada and Amnat have yet to face as many no names or washed up fighters as Roman. in fact you're right, Fuentes was beat by Amnat long before Roman blasted through him... What had he done or achieve in order to get a shot at Roman after losing to Amnat? What did Sosa do to get the shot at Roman since losing to Yaegashi? What has Segura done since his loss to Estrada to even deserve being eyed?

Naoya has done in eight fights what Roman accomplished in 20 plus, isn't that bothersome? You can attempt to belittle Naoya's great feats but that doesn't immediatly tarnish his accomplishments in any way, shape or form.

I guarantee you no one would complain if Roman actually took on fighters with a pulse or actual shot, but truth is he isn't. You can't complain about Roman not getting credit for taking on fights or fighters he doesn't even mention, while continuing to believe that criticism against him is all about double standards.




I am a fan, I'm just not gonna sit there and act as if he's actually doing anything in a stacked division.
Re read my books, volumes 1 through 5, regarding the matter(they can be found throughout this thread) before attempting to make a repetitive, pointless argument. Roman is the goods, his opponents aren't.

Tell me, how great was Sosa this past Saturday. To me, he was slow, predictable and defenseless. Nothing but a showcase, just like his previous two fights against Fuentes, Valentin and a possible future showcase against Segura..


"You hatin doe, bet you'd be his number one fan if he was Mexican doe"

you say your a fan but I know you want to see him fall. Gonzalez job is to fight the promoters tell him who hes going to fight and his job is to train hard and fight that's the job of a fighter unless your Mayweather then you can pick and choose that's what you don't understand.

[Nicoya415]

No, the truth is if Gonzalez was Mexican and Estrada wasn't their roles would be reversed. Estrada would be praised as a boxing god and Gonzalez would be called a face first brawler.

It's all good though, the Estrada vs. Gonzalez rivalry will play out just like Marquez vs. Pacquiao. When Pacquiao came along all of you f4gg0ts that can't bring yourselves to like a Mexican or a black fighter finally had someone to root for and hype up, but then a Mexican fighter after continuously getting the s**t end of the stick humbled all you b1tches, , .

I just don't understand where all the negative talk about Gonzalez comes from hes a great fighter in and out of the ring. Gonzalez would never be known as a face first brawler if that's what you think then you don't know about boxing he has an amazing talent and he shows it every time he steps in the ring. its funny how to you Estrada is a boxing God and Gonzalez is a face first brawler lol I cant say nothing negative about a fighter that steps into the ring and puts it all on the line cause i know its a hard sport but a lot of you "fans" talk so much like you know what its like to be in the ring.

[kiaba360]

I'm diggin this Golovkin/Gonzalez combo. Lots of **** for your buck!

I think it's a great way to build Roman up. The proposed match-up, on the other hand, not feeling it too much. Segura will be coming off a year of inactivity and he lost to Estrada. However, it did take 11 rounds to get the stoppage; I think Roman will do better. That's what HBO is probably hoping for.

[Mr.Fantastic]

Gonzalez needs to step it up. He's fighting a guy that's a shell of his former self like Solis.

[paypayvay]

And the following fight was contested at which weight exactly? I think I remember but it so happens to slip my mind from time to time. Also, On the verge would be a lot closer than half a year.

Honestly, 500k is more than what most flyweights would make in their career. Do I believe they deserve more? Sure, but to expect any major player in the sport to fork over 1 million for a fight most boxing fans would see as a side show attraction isn't too realistic. In fact the rematch was more enticing not because of Roman, but because of the career Estrada carved for himself at his natural weight class.

So 500k might not mean much in the "grand scheme of things", but to downplay it and act as if it wasn't a significant sum would be ridiculous, especially since it was for a division many fans see as a niche.

the division isn't considered a niche in the country where Roman's promoter is based and where most of his big fights took place . ( Japan )

the 500 k offer isn't actually a descent offer for a super fight even at 112.

foreign fighters make top dollar in japan. Sahaprom and Pongsaklek got paid in the 500k - 600k range for routine defenses against japanese bums .

and Roman is a bigger name than both .

[Aztekkas]

Aztekkas, you know that I always respect your knowledge and point of view. You have to recognize though that there are very few entertaining fights left on paper for Gonzalez. I don't care if it's someone coming off a win, a loss, undefeated, three time champion, 40 losses, 80 wins, or a prodigy. More than likely he's gonna be trashed for the fight either before or after he wins. Truthfully, out of all of the possible fights for him, the one that I want to see most is Mthalane due to the styles.

Looking at it all in the end, all of the he fought him **** is getting old with me. I'm sure that in your life you've seen an alleged shot fighter win when he wasn't supposed to. I'm sure that you've seen a young champion used to send an old fighter off in the sunset. This is all part of the business of boxing and I accept it at this point. Anything can happen when two men step in the ring and that's all that matters at the end of the day.

As for Inoue, it's great what he's accomplished at this point. I don't know how his accomplishments could be troublesome though. Everyone gets where they're going in their own time. I don't for a second think that he's had the level of fights that Gonzalez or Estrada have had yet. He needs that high level fight so that we can see what he's made of first. Cuadras would be the perfect candidate for that task.

I think Cuadras vs Roman would be entertaining due to their contrasting styles, although Carlos can **** if he has to. I think 115 would be a challenging division for Roman as well since all the champions except for Kono are extremely talented and powerful themselves. At 112 he has the winner of Casimero vs Amnat, Estrada, a strong contender in Arroyo, a Nietes who's looking to move up after his Rodriguez jr showdown, and many other good prospects and ex title holders who could make some great clashes.

So we had a thread a while back where you mentioned all the Estrada fights I should watch (I did). I was wondering something that I think you would know the answer to. After Estrada and Roman battled it out the winner was supposed to face Viloria since they were on his undercard. Why didn't Roman face him but instead Estrada did and beat him.

I'm not 100 percent positive my friend, but Estrada wasn't meant to be much of a challenge for Viloria. In fact it was considered somewhat of an upset. Perhaps it was because Roman wanted to completely adjust to the weight before actually gunning for a world crown and since Estrada had a good showing, was established at flyweight and was willing to travel to Macau for the showdown, I figure it was easier to buckle down and give the fight to him.

I do know that Roman wasn't comfortable at 112 am even during his first defense against Fuentes, he complained about feeling too slow and his poor defense. Supposedly he was looking into acquiring a new trainer but nothing came out of that. However, after his past two performances, putting aside the level of competition he was facing, Roman looked poise, strong, fast and accurate. I suppose he managed to fix his issues and didn't balloon all the way up to 127 on fight night, seeing as how he only reached 124 for Sosa.

you say your a fan but I know you want to see him fall. Gonzalez job is to fight the promoters tell him who hes going to fight and his job is to train hard and fight that's the job of a fighter unless your Mayweather then you can pick and choose that's what you don't understand.

I do understand, what bothers me is that he ignored the only fighter in the division whom has posed as a threat to him due to their previous clash on air, then turns around and calls him out behind the scenes. This is the lineal WBC champion, top 5 pound for pound fighter we are talking about here, why wouldn't he suggest a unification clash between the unified WBO and WBA champion himself to further unify the division? On top of that, as a fighter, he does have a choice to seek out the best competitors and attempt to secure meaningful fights against other talents, not just sit back and watch his team put together mismatches for the sake of maintaining his indestructible image.

the division isn't considered a niche in the country where Roman's promoter is based and where most of his big fights took place . ( Japan )

the 500 k offer isn't actually a descent offer for a super fight even at 112.

foreign fighters make top dollar in japan. Sahaprom and Pongsaklek got paid in the 500k - 600k range for routine defenses against japanese bums .

and Roman is a bigger name than both .

This fight wasn't being offered to take place in Japan though, it was an offer made by HBO and would have most likely taken place on American soil. What exactly do Japanese pay rates and acceptance of the lower weights have to do with my points?

Regardless of how big the lower weights may be in Japan or how well foreign fighters get paid there, the truth of the matter is that the American public doesnt generally have the taste for such fights in such low weight divisions, hence my statement.

Perhaps now that HBO is trying to push Roman into stardom the purse would raise considerably, but at the time of the offer it wasn't nearly as bad as HBO's first, being a ridiculous 150k.