Comments Thread For: Roman Gonzalez-Giovani Segura in Play For The Fall

[Suavecito80]

I am just glad that a thread not about Mayweather or Manny has this many pages. That is good news especially for the lower weight classes.

[Aztekkas]

Hence "on the verge of turning 23." Not a prospect, just a relatively untested contender who scored his biggest win in his very next fight (which remains his most significant victory since.)

They've specified their asking price, and $500,000 for one of the very best matchups in boxing (a sport in which larger sums of money are wasted on significantly worse matchups) isn't **** all in the grand scheme of things.

And the following fight was contested at which weight exactly? I think I remember but it so happens to slip my mind from time to time. Also, On the verge would be a lot closer than half a year.

Honestly, 500k is more than what most flyweights would make in their career. Do I believe they deserve more? Sure, but to expect any major player in the sport to fork over 1 million for a fight most boxing fans would see as a side show attraction isn't too realistic. In fact the rematch was more enticing not because of Roman, but because of the career Estrada carved for himself at his natural weight class.

So 500k might not mean much in the "grand scheme of things", but to downplay it and act as if it wasn't a significant sum would be ridiculous, especially since it was for a division many fans see as a niche.

[Ham Porter]

And the following fight was contested at which weight exactly? I think I remember but it so happens to slip my mind from time to time. Also, On the verge would be a lot closer than half a year.

Honestly, 500k is more than what most flyweights would make in their career. Do I believe they deserve more? Sure, but to expect any major player in the sport to fork over 1 million for a fight most boxing fans would see as a side show attraction isn't too realistic. In fact the rematch was more enticing not because of Roman, but because of the career Estrada carved for himself at his natural weight class.

500k might not mean much in the "grand scheme of things", but to downplay it and act as if it wasn't a significant sum would be ridiculous, especially since it was for a division many fans see as a niche.

Technically speaking, five months = under half a year, but whatever. You can pretend that Estrada magically transformed into a Super Saiyan in the space of about five months if you want.

And it's a little over double of what Gonzalez just got for his debut for smashing a "washed up" fighter (who you'd be fawning over if he was on Estrada's record), so it's not an unrealistic sum at this point in time.

The appeal of the rematch is that it's between the two best fighters in the division and two guys that are commonly thought of as two of the better boxers in the sport overall. It's not rocket science, bruv.

[Aztekkas]

Technically speaking, five months = under half a year, but whatever. You can pretend that Estrada magically transformed into a Super Saiyan in the space of about five months if you want.

And it's a little over double of what Gonzalez just got for his debut for smashing a "washed up" fighter (who you'd be fawning over if he was on Estrada's record), so it's not an unrealistic sum at this point in time.

The appeal of the rematch is that it's between the two best fighters in the division and two guys that are commonly thought of as two of the better boxers in the sport overall. It's not rocket science, bruv.

I'm not pretending anything, it's a fact that Estrada had to drop to 108 for the first time in his career in order to get a shot at a world title. In fact, he earned that shot by KO'ing and revenging his lone loss at the time against Sanchez Jr. for the box Azteca tournament. He didn't "super saiyan" but he did return to the proper weight division and clearly beat Viloria, whom at the time was trampling through alo't of good to decent leveled fighters.

I'm just wondering why no mention of said rematch, I believe Estrada was ringside this past weekend and Roman made no mention of him on air. He may have made a little over that for his debut but at the point and time he was asking for the one million dollar purse(not too long ago), he was yet to have made a splash on HBO and was facing the likes of Leon Valentin.

Do I think they can get a hefty purse? Sure, perhaps later on down the road.. but my main question is why is Roman constantly facing sub par competition when the division is stacked with skilled fighters. It doesnt have to be Estrada himself, he can skip that fight if he pleases but to claim he's the top guy in weight when Estrada and Amnat himself are facing much more formidable opposition is questionable.

Not only that but he's considered top 5 pound for pound in the sport, all off of what win as of late? Akira? The same man who moved back down in weight and got KTFO in 7? Because no one else was worthy of mention or note since fighting the, at the time, unknown Estrada several years back.

His overall resume is quite deep, but his 112 record is leaky and that's the division where all his praise is coming from.

[buddyguns]

I'm not pretending anything, it's a fact that Estrada had to drop to 108 for the first time in his career in order to get a shot at a world title. In fact, he earned that shot by KO'ing and revenging his lone loss at the time against Sanchez Jr. for the box Azteca tournament. He didn't "super saiyan" but he did return to the proper weight division and clearly beat Viloria, whom at the time was trampling through alo't of good to decent leveled fighters.

I'm just wondering why no mention of said rematch, I believe Estrada was ringside this past weekend and Roman made no mention of him on air. He may have made a little over that for his debut but at the point and time he was asking for the one million dollar purse(not too long ago), he was yet to have made a splash on HBO and was facing the likes of Leon Valentin.

Do I think they can get a hefty purse? Sure, perhaps later on down the road.. but my main question is why is Roman constantly facing sub par competition when the division is stacked with skilled fighters. It doesnt have to be Estrada himself, he can skip that fight if he pleases but to claim he's the top guy in weight when Estrada and Amnat himself are facing much more formidable opposition is questionable.

Not only that but he's considered top 5 pound for pound in the sport, all off of what win as of late? Akira? The same man who moved back down in weight and got KTFO in 7? Because no one else was worthy of mention or note since fighting the, at the time, unknown Estrada several years back.

His overall resume is quite deep, but his 112 record is leaky and that's the division where all his praise is coming from.

I'm not here to debate about Roman Gonzalez's level of opposition over the last couple of years, but I am wondering about the double standard in place. If we entered any of Estrada's past opponents since Gonzalez, we have Brian Viloria, Milan Melindo, Richie Mepranum, Giovani Segura (who is being labeled a bum on this thread), Joebert Alvarez, and Rommel Asenjo. If Roman Gonzalez schedules a fight with any of them, he's seen as fighting bums, as is being claimed here right now. Amnat Ruenroeng since winning his title has beat Rocky Fuentes (who Gonzalez is being ridiculed for fighting), Kazuto Ioka, McWilliams Arroyo, and Zou Shiming. Next he'll be facing John Riel Casimero. Once again, the current evidence suggests that if Gonzalez landed any of these opponents with exception to Ioka, he would be seen as fighting a bum not worthy of sharing a ring with him. The complaints about him facing Ioka would come after Gonzalez blasted Ioka out. By this very logic, Gonzalez is only allowed to face elite opposition while there is only a handful (if that) of elite opposition around him. But everyone else is allowed to fight good to great opposition and be applauded for it?

I'm also not sure, but I want you to tell me who should be seen as quality competition? Estrada? Gonzalez already beat him, and while the rematch would be compelling, Gonzalez would beat him again. Viloria? Gonzalez walks through him and gets labeled with facing a washed up champion. Ruenroeng? Please don't even go there. Arroyo and Shiming put him on the deck, what do you think Gonzalez would do to him? I wouldn't mind watching the fight from a style sense though. Mthalane? Once again, while I like the idea of this fight from a style sense, Gonzalez would be ridiculed for fighting a washed up champion with two loses by knockout. Inoue? Inoue walked through Hernandez and Narvaez to get where he's at. While he's young and talented, he still isn't anywhere near Roman's level of talent. The fight would play out like every other fight that Gonzalez has had with a Japanese fighter.

[Nicoya415]

I'm not pretending anything, it's a fact that Estrada had to drop to 108 for the first time in his career in order to get a shot at a world title. In fact, he earned that shot by KO'ing and revenging his lone loss at the time against Sanchez Jr. for the box Azteca tournament. He didn't "super saiyan" but he did return to the proper weight division and clearly beat Viloria, whom at the time was trampling through alo't of good to decent leveled fighters.

I'm just wondering why no mention of said rematch, I believe Estrada was ringside this past weekend and Roman made no mention of him on air. He may have made a little over that for his debut but at the point and time he was asking for the one million dollar purse(not too long ago), he was yet to have made a splash on HBO and was facing the likes of Leon Valentin.

Do I think they can get a hefty purse? Sure, perhaps later on down the road.. but my main question is why is Roman constantly facing sub par competition when the division is stacked with skilled fighters. It doesnt have to be Estrada himself, he can skip that fight if he pleases but to claim he's the top guy in weight when Estrada and Amnat himself are facing much more formidable opposition is questionable.

Not only that but he's considered top 5 pound for pound in the sport, all off of what win as of late? Akira? The same man who moved back down in weight and got KTFO in 7? Because no one else was worthy of mention or note since fighting the, at the time, unknown Estrada several years back.

His overall resume is quite deep, but his 112 record is leaky and that's the division where all his praise is coming from.

hes considered a top p4p boxer because of his skills if you cant see that then your blind. Why are you trying to down play Gonzalez? hes obviously a great fighter if it wasn't for him the smaller weights wouldn't be getting the attention they are starting to get. The man has a tremendous talent cant believe you guys cant see that, I bet if he was Mexican you would be his #1 fan.

[-Johannes-]

Pointless fight, I think Segura is damaged goods already. It's a nice fight for Gonzalez though, it will make him look good.

Gonzalez Ruenroeng /casimero winner in october would be cool.

[Aztekkas]

I'm not here to debate about Roman Gonzalez's level of opposition over the last couple of years, but I am wondering about the double standard in place. If we entered any of Estrada's past opponents since Gonzalez, we have Brian Viloria, Milan Melindo, Richie Mepranum, Giovani Segura (who is being labeled a bum on this thread), Joebert Alvarez, and Rommel Asenjo. If Roman Gonzalez schedules a fight with any of them, he's seen as fighting bums, as is being claimed here right now. Amnat Ruenroeng since winning his title has beat Rocky Fuentes (who Gonzalez is being ridiculed for fighting), Kazuto Ioka, McWilliams Arroyo, and Zou Shiming. Next he'll be facing John Riel Casimero. Once again, the current evidence suggests that if Gonzalez landed any of these opponents with exception to Ioka, he would be seen as fighting a bum not worthy of sharing a ring with him. The complaints about him facing Ioka would come after Gonzalez blasted Ioka out. By this very logic, Gonzalez is only allowed to face elite opposition while there is only a handful (if that) of elite opposition around him. But everyone else is allowed to fight good to great opposition and be applauded for it?

I'm also not sure, but I want you to tell me who should be seen as quality competition? Estrada? Gonzalez already beat him, and while the rematch would be compelling, Gonzalez would beat him again. Viloria? Gonzalez walks through him and gets labeled with facing a washed up champion. Ruenroeng? Please don't even go there. Arroyo and Shiming put him on the deck, what do you think Gonzalez would do to him? I wouldn't mind watching the fight from a style sense though. Mthalane? Once again, while I like the idea of this fight from a style sense, Gonzalez would be ridiculed for fighting a washed up champion with two loses by knockout. Inoue? Inoue walked through Hernandez and Narvaez to get where he's at. While he's young and talented, he still isn't anywhere near Roman's level of talent. The fight would play out like every other fight that Gonzalez has had with a Japanese fighter.

Listen, the only reason I criticize Segura as a potential match up for Roman is because Segura is coming off of a loss last September and hasn't fought since. You may claim double standards but you fail to see that I'm a Roman fan myself.

I was all for the Estrada vs Segura showdown back then, but that's primarily because Segura was on a comeback trail after blasting past Hernan Marquez, Gonzalez and a tough Saludar. Not only did Estrada outclass him but pummeled him into submission, yet this is currently a potential match up for the pound for pound star of the division? Tell me, how is that not laughable?

Regarding his record, I have always praised his Yaegashi win and Sosa, although not great, was a decent win itself. Apart from those wins he has nothing else of note in a lot more than a few years.

Now, if he was fighting the Asenjo's and alvarez's of the division, I wouldn't mind so much neither. Do I praise Estrada for said wins? Not at all, but it sure beats taking on fighters the likes of Leon Valentin, doesn't it?

I agree, Amnat would most likely lose to Roman, but an upset is not out of the question. Amnat has accomplished and faced stiff competition since acquiring his belt not too long ago, although he has been put down by lesser punchers, his style would be intriguing and his rank would validate Roman as the true and undisputed number one flyweight in the division, if he gets past him. For now, Estrada and Amnat have yet to face as many no names or washed up fighters as Roman. in fact you're right, Fuentes was beat by Amnat long before Roman blasted through him... What had he done or achieve in order to get a shot at Roman after losing to Amnat? What did Sosa do to get the shot at Roman since losing to Yaegashi? What has Segura done since his loss to Estrada to even deserve being eyed?

Naoya has done in eight fights what Roman accomplished in 20 plus, isn't that bothersome? You can attempt to belittle Naoya's great feats but that doesn't immediatly tarnish his accomplishments in any way, shape or form.

I guarantee you no one would complain if Roman actually took on fighters with a pulse or actual shot, but truth is he isn't. You can't complain about Roman not getting credit for taking on fights or fighters he doesn't even mention, while continuing to believe that criticism against him is all about double standards.

hes considered a top p4p boxer because of his skills if you cant see that then your blind. Why are you trying to down play Gonzalez? hes obviously a great fighter if it wasn't for him the smaller weights wouldn't be getting the attention they are starting to get. The man has a tremendous talent cant believe you guys cant see that, I bet if he was Mexican you would be his #1 fan.

I am a fan, I'm just not gonna sit there and act as if he's actually doing anything in a stacked division.
Re read my books, volumes 1 through 5, regarding the matter(they can be found throughout this thread) before attempting to make a repetitive, pointless argument. Roman is the goods, his opponents aren't.

Tell me, how great was Sosa this past Saturday. To me, he was slow, predictable and defenseless. Nothing but a showcase, just like his previous two fights against Fuentes, Valentin and a possible future showcase against Segura..


"You hatin doe, bet you'd be his number one fan if he was Mexican doe"

[El Campesino]

I'm not here to debate about Roman Gonzalez's level of opposition over the last couple of years, but I am wondering about the double standard in place. If we entered any of Estrada's past opponents since Gonzalez, we have Brian Viloria, Milan Melindo, Richie Mepranum, Giovani Segura (who is being labeled a bum on this thread), Joebert Alvarez, and Rommel Asenjo. If Roman Gonzalez schedules a fight with any of them, he's seen as fighting bums, as is being claimed here right now. Amnat Ruenroeng since winning his title has beat Rocky Fuentes (who Gonzalez is being ridiculed for fighting), Kazuto Ioka, McWilliams Arroyo, and Zou Shiming. Next he'll be facing John Riel Casimero. Once again, the current evidence suggests that if Gonzalez landed any of these opponents with exception to Ioka, he would be seen as fighting a bum not worthy of sharing a ring with him. The complaints about him facing Ioka would come after Gonzalez blasted Ioka out. By this very logic, Gonzalez is only allowed to face elite opposition while there is only a handful (if that) of elite opposition around him. But everyone else is allowed to fight good to great opposition and be applauded for it?

I'm also not sure, but I want you to tell me who should be seen as quality competition? Estrada? Gonzalez already beat him, and while the rematch would be compelling, Gonzalez would beat him again. Viloria? Gonzalez walks through him and gets labeled with facing a washed up champion. Ruenroeng? Please don't even go there. Arroyo and Shiming put him on the deck, what do you think Gonzalez would do to him? I wouldn't mind watching the fight from a style sense though. Mthalane? Once again, while I like the idea of this fight from a style sense, Gonzalez would be ridiculed for fighting a washed up champion with two loses by knockout. Inoue? Inoue walked through Hernandez and Narvaez to get where he's at. While he's young and talented, he still isn't anywhere near Roman's level of talent. The fight would play out like every other fight that Gonzalez has had with a Japanese fighter.

1. Juan Francisco Estrada schooled Brian Viloria coming off of wins over Julio Cesar Miranda, Omar Nino Romero, Giovani Segura, and Hernan Marquez (In other words all the lower weight top dogs)

2. Milan Melindo was an undefeated top contender. Not some 28 loss donut vendor type that Gonzalez loves to fight.

3. Richie Mepranum is the same level as Oscar Blanquet and Rocky Fuentes types, which is fine once in a while, not every single fight like Gonzalez. P4P doe, huh?

4. Giovani Segura was coming off of a nice string of wins over Jonathan Gonzalez, Hernan Marquez, and Felipe Salguero when Estrada came along and thrashed him.

5. Joebert Alvarez was an undefeated prospect. Again, not some 28 loss donut vendor.

6. Rommel Asenjo was not the best competition, but again, not some 28 loss donut vendor. And Asenjo was a late replacement for top contender Froilan Saludar.

at the bold. Mr. Left-Overs Gonzalez fought Rocky Fuentes AFTER Amnat Ruenrueng beat him.

Just like Gonzalez fought Oscar Blanquet right after Akira Yaegashi beat him, and he fought Juan Kantun after David Sanchez beat him, and he fought Juan Purisima after Artem Dalakian beat him.

4 of Gonzalez's last 7 opponents were coming off of losses, and 1 of the 3 opponents coming off of wins had 28 losses, . The other 2 opponents were Akira Yaegashi and Edgar Sosa, both of which I have no problem with.

You know how many of Estrada's last 6 opponents since fighting Gonzalez were coming off of losses? 0.

And you know who Estrada is rumored to fight next? Hernan Marquez. If he does fight Marquez I'll give him no credit for a Marquez win other than it being a good name on his resume because Marquez got thrashed by Segura and Arrroyo and is shot to s**t.

But according to you Johnriel Casimero and McWilliams Arroyo = Juan Purisima and Valentin Leon, .

Keep crying, ******.

[El Campesino]

hes considered a top p4p boxer because of his skills if you cant see that then your blind. Why are you trying to down play Gonzalez? hes obviously a great fighter if it wasn't for him the smaller weights wouldn't be getting the attention they are starting to get. The man has a tremendous talent cant believe you guys cant see that, I bet if he was Mexican you would be his #1 fan.

No, the truth is if Gonzalez was Mexican and Estrada wasn't their roles would be reversed. Estrada would be praised as a boxing god and Gonzalez would be called a face first brawler.

It's all good though, the Estrada vs. Gonzalez rivalry will play out just like Marquez vs. Pacquiao. When Pacquiao came along all of you f4gg0ts that can't bring yourselves to like a Mexican or a black fighter finally had someone to root for and hype up, but then a Mexican fighter after continuously getting the s**t end of the stick humbled all you b1tches, , .