Everyone complains about hugging and holding in the ring...

[saintpat]

I am sometimes astounded by the level of knowledge (or lack thereof) by some on boxing forums.

Excessive holding is a foul. That doesn't mean every clinch involves holding. Or that only one fighter is at fault when a clinch happens -- should the ref deduct points for holding from both fighters if both are holding (which is often the case)? What's the point?

If two fighters come together and one throws one of his arms under the other's arm -- i.e. between the arm and the body, he is the guy initiating a clinch. The only way to avoid "holding" a guy when he does this is to keep your elbow extended as if trying to take off and fly like a bird.

And the guy who puts his glove under the other guy's arm is not only initiating the clinch, he's doing so purposely to stop the other guy from being able to hit with that hand.

Case in point, go look at Wlad vs. Jennings and see how many times Jennings slips his left glove under Wlad's right arm and wraps it around his waist ... which is HOLDING his waist.

Yet people come on boxing forums and say Wlad was holding all night (he has in other fights, but Jennings initiated more than half the clinches in that fight).

If you don't want to get clinched, keep your own hands in tight and elbows close to the body and work short shots and you'll find the guy trying to hold doesn't have anything to grab onto ... and if he does hold then it's so obvious the ref has to do something about it.

In Floyd-Pac, I saw some clinches but not an excessive amount, and I didn't see excessive holding. What I certainly didn't see was Pac actually trying to fight inside or work with a free hand ... he gladly accepted what clinches there were, and no ref is going to penalize a guy for holding if the other guy isn't trying to fight out of it. Those are mutual clinches. If the guy beng "held" tries to work and keeps fighting with his free hand, he's a lot more likely to get the ref's attention. If he accepts the clinch and falls into it, it becomes a mutual thing.

And, again, clinches aren't illegal. It's not a case where a ref has to decide one guy is breaking the rules every time two fighters get tied up.

People also complain about a guy "ducking his head too low" as if the other guy isn't allowed to throw an uppercut. Last I looked, it's not illegal to time your opponent and run him into an uppercut, or throw a hook that hits him on the side of the head in such a case.

Mostly these "holding" and "ducking low" complainers are looking for the ref to help out a guy who either doesn't have the fundamentals to help himself, or actually is complicit in the clinching himself.

[ElMeroChingon]

excessive clinching should not be left only to a referees discretion, it doesn't work, and we have fights to prove it. Watch Wlad. K. last performance
.

This is the reason why.


1. IF A fighter gets trapped against the ropes, it should be his job to work his way out again.

2. Clinching every time a fighter traps you against the ropes is cheap exploitation, the REF does the work for you and BAILS you out. It is not his job to bail him out, that is for the fighter.

3. Clinching should only be used when a fighter is visibly hurt.



Basically there's a loop hole that's being exploited.

The way clinching is allowed to be exploited, it removes one of the essential aspects of BOXING, INSIDE FIGHTING. The referee bails out the fighter who clinches, throwing away all the hard work that was done to put him on the ropes by his opponent.


If you re-evaluate, look at how much fighters clinch, 50+ to 80+ a fight????? It's ridiculous!

[SCEN3RY]

I prefer boxing, in its ideal sense...is it too much to ask for professional athletes trained in boxing to just fight clean? Excessive clinching, shots behind the head, low blows, forearms...I'm sorry but that **** is not a reflection of skill, those are just tactics that found their way into boxing by no rule book, but by man. Imagine a scale, on one end is the idea of Clean Boxing and the other Bar Room Brawling - now find a place for forearms, headlocks, low blows, excessive clinching, kidney shots and tell me which side tips?

Just cause your favorite boxer does it, doesn't mean it's all of sudden holy and clean...there's a bar room brawler in all boxers, some more than others.

[extracurRICular]

If you watch the Golovkin - Murray fight, you will see GGG doing close to exactly that. When Murray tried to clinch and hold in the first few rounds, GGG shoved him off or drove his head into Murray's chest and face. This forced Murray to release him and then GGG would tag him with a couple of hard shots when his arms were free. It did not take Murray long to abandon the strategy of trying to clinch and hold Golovkin.

I just don't get why EVERYONE fighting dudes that are more interesting in getting intimately close than fighting don't do this every single time!

[extracurRICular]

Seriously what Chad Dawson did to BHop was perfect. Lifted him up, threw him down and Hopkins got injured in the process. By then Dawson was already in his head in the second fight and won quite easily.

Why people do nothing about it makes no sense to me. You have two hands, do something about it

Exactly.......do that **** just one time to send a msg............in that case........msg received!

[extracurRICular]

Care to explain?

I gave you 2 examples of fighters getting 3 points deducted for doing something that you said should be done.

Not even saying you should or shouldn't but when you do, you can get points deducted and the other guy, well he didn't get any points deducted in the first place.

Example: Floyd did his share of dirty tactics with Hatton, Maidana, Ortiz and others. The only time that Floyd had a point deducted was just to counter the point that they deducted earlier on his opponents and it was many moons ago ...... but only once in all of his career that I can remember, while his opponents get hard warnings and points deducted.

[CANELOLUJAH]

But why don't the opponents...(those being hugged and held) do something about it?? what ever happened to not letting yourself be hugged and held?

how about some pushing? or some hitting in the back of the head or some kidney punches? I mean if the other person is gonna implement illegal tactics...why not fight fire with fire?? and let the other fighter pay the price for his tactics or he will stop doing it.....or better yet the ref would maybe start doing his job........

anyone???

I mean

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for the simple fact the holding hugging is more commonly universally accepted and its just one of those things that gonna happen no matter from time to time.

and generally it takes two to hold and hug etc cause you can muscle you way out of it if you are strong enough but rabbit punching etc is all just one person now its takes two to pull that off type of deal.

[extracurRICular]

I am sometimes astounded by the level of knowledge (or lack thereof) by some on boxing forums.

Excessive holding is a foul. That doesn't mean every clinch involves holding. Or that only one fighter is at fault when a clinch happens -- should the ref deduct points for holding from both fighters if both are holding (which is often the case)? What's the point?

If two fighters come together and one throws one of his arms under the other's arm -- i.e. between the arm and the body, he is the guy initiating a clinch. The only way to avoid "holding" a guy when he does this is to keep your elbow extended as if trying to take off and fly like a bird.

And the guy who puts his glove under the other guy's arm is not only initiating the clinch, he's doing so purposely to stop the other guy from being able to hit with that hand.

Case in point, go look at Wlad vs. Jennings and see how many times Jennings slips his left glove under Wlad's right arm and wraps it around his waist ... which is HOLDING his waist.

Yet people come on boxing forums and say Wlad was holding all night (he has in other fights, but Jennings initiated more than half the clinches in that fight).

If you don't want to get clinched, keep your own hands in tight and elbows close to the body and work short shots and you'll find the guy trying to hold doesn't have anything to grab onto ... and if he does hold then it's so obvious the ref has to do something about it.

In Floyd-Pac, I saw some clinches but not an excessive amount, and I didn't see excessive holding. What I certainly didn't see was Pac actually trying to fight inside or work with a free hand ... he gladly accepted what clinches there were, and no ref is going to penalize a guy for holding if the other guy isn't trying to fight out of it. Those are mutual clinches. If the guy beng "held" tries to work and keeps fighting with his free hand, he's a lot more likely to get the ref's attention. If he accepts the clinch and falls into it, it becomes a mutual thing.

And, again, clinches aren't illegal. It's not a case where a ref has to decide one guy is breaking the rules every time two fighters get tied up.

People also complain about a guy "ducking his head too low" as if the other guy isn't allowed to throw an uppercut. Last I looked, it's not illegal to time your opponent and run him into an uppercut, or throw a hook that hits him on the side of the head in such a case.

Mostly these "holding" and "ducking low" complainers are looking for the ref to help out a guy who either doesn't have the fundamentals to help himself, or actually is complicit in the clinching himself.

[CANELOLUJAH]

I am sometimes astounded by the level of knowledge (or lack thereof) by some on boxing forums.

Excessive holding is a foul. That doesn't mean every clinch involves holding. Or that only one fighter is at fault when a clinch happens -- should the ref deduct points for holding from both fighters if both are holding (which is often the case)? What's the point?

If two fighters come together and one throws one of his arms under the other's arm -- i.e. between the arm and the body, he is the guy initiating a clinch. The only way to avoid "holding" a guy when he does this is to keep your elbow extended as if trying to take off and fly like a bird.

And the guy who puts his glove under the other guy's arm is not only initiating the clinch, he's doing so purposely to stop the other guy from being able to hit with that hand.

Case in point, go look at Wlad vs. Jennings and see how many times Jennings slips his left glove under Wlad's right arm and wraps it around his waist ... which is HOLDING his waist.

Yet people come on boxing forums and say Wlad was holding all night (he has in other fights, but Jennings initiated more than half the clinches in that fight).

If you don't want to get clinched, keep your own hands in tight and elbows close to the body and work short shots and you'll find the guy trying to hold doesn't have anything to grab onto ... and if he does hold then it's so obvious the ref has to do something about it.

In Floyd-Pac, I saw some clinches but not an excessive amount, and I didn't see excessive holding. What I certainly didn't see was Pac actually trying to fight inside or work with a free hand ... he gladly accepted what clinches there were, and no ref is going to penalize a guy for holding if the other guy isn't trying to fight out of it. Those are mutual clinches. If the guy beng "held" tries to work and keeps fighting with his free hand, he's a lot more likely to get the ref's attention. If he accepts the clinch and falls into it, it becomes a mutual thing.

And, again, clinches aren't illegal. It's not a case where a ref has to decide one guy is breaking the rules every time two fighters get tied up.

People also complain about a guy "ducking his head too low" as if the other guy isn't allowed to throw an uppercut. Last I looked, it's not illegal to time your opponent and run him into an uppercut, or throw a hook that hits him on the side of the head in such a case.

Mostly these "holding" and "ducking low" complainers are looking for the ref to help out a guy who either doesn't have the fundamentals to help himself, or actually is complicit in the clinching himself.

Yes, and the point is to deter the fighters from continually that behavior.

[extracurRICular]

Yes, and the point is to deter the fighters from continually that behavior.

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