Comments Thread For: Arum: Mayweather Better Than Ali? That's a Joke!

[aboutfkntime]

The one who is missing the point is you. People don't think Arum had a change of mind; they're highlighting his propensity to lie when it suits his agenda.

All of you posters who are saying that Arum was lying earlier.....

..... are admitting that he is currently lying about Pacquiao LOL

[sterilizer]

Out of 47 fights 22 have been in Vegas..
Name all the fights he has clinched in
boring and coardly=explain
name all the fights he ran in
out of 47 fights 2 were at catchweights
out of prime champ??lol

OK, here's some answers to your "test":

"Only" 22 of his fights have been in Vegas. How many of his latest ones have been there? How many of his MOST IMPORTANT ones have been there? How many of his most controversial ones have happened there?

I have seen a few of his fights re-played. He clinches on an as-needed basis, not 100% of the time, I will give you that. So he clinched when he needed to, vs. Maidana. He didn't need to clinch vs. Canelo because Canelo was so slow, clumsy and drained. He clinched vs. Guerrero to stop him, when he needed it. He clinched A WHOLE LOT vs. Ortiz, and I'm sure that Ortiz ended up head-butting him so blatantly because of that non-penalized excessive clinching.

Boring and cowardly, do I really need to explain??? His being boring is obvious, he never wants to trade punches, never wants to finish off his opponents to avoid the risk of getting hit. Tell me a single fight where he was involved, that was fight of the year? Even Bradley has been involved in one of those!
His being cowardly is equally as evident. His whole fighting game is avoiding getting hit at all costs. That "shoulder roll technique" is so pathetic, the very stance looks so cowardly, it's a flinching stance by nature. It's standing in an "I'm scared don't hit me" kind of fashion, it looks ridiculous and unsightly, the very emblem of a cowardly "fighter" and sadly many other "fighters" are adopting it instead of learning to be aggressive and defend themselves in an orthodox fashion, that is, by punching the other guy.

One fight that comes to mind where he blatantly ran and he was booed by the crowd, was vs. Canelo. He literally RAN away from him in a couple of the latest rounds, avoiding fighting at all costs. Also, every time Canelo tried to start hitting him repeatedly, Floyd ran away scared. I remember him running away from Guerrero as well, even though the latter was every bit as slow as Canelo both in legs and arms and Floyd actually did harm him.

I don't keep tabs of his catch weight fights as you may do because I'm sure you are his admirer, but I don't care about him.

But let's see, I know that two of his most important fights, if not THE most important fights he has ever had, other than the De la Hoya fight (where he was NOT the main draw) were catch weights, where he had the advantage by far.

Against JMM, Floyd made him fight two divisions above his current natural fighting weight, which was lightweight. Also Floyd came in overweight to the weigh-in by a few pounds and was much heavier, lean, muscular and in shape than poor pathetic JMM, who was fat, out of shape, slow, and much lighter than Floyd. I was really embarrassed by such a bully-type fight, a much bigger, taller, in-shape guy (Floyd) with all the possible physical advantages on his side, vs. a shorter, much smaller, out of shape guy, with a huge reach disadvantage as well. End even so, Floyd promised a knock out yet he could never deliver. Also, JMM delivered several nice blows on Floyd's face and body, but of course the judges didn't give him any rounds and made it look like a total blowout when it really wasn't, JMM scored easily 3-4 rounds in that fight but got no credit because he looked so small and weak against his bully, much bigger and leaner opponent.

Against Canelo, even if it was just a couple of pounds below the division weight, it was just enough to drain him and make him look like a living corpse during the weigh-in and it made him even slower, clumsier and more stamina-less than usual. Canelo tends to be hit easily at times, by just everybody because he gets tired, but this time he was worse than usual and Floyd took advantage of that several times, but every time Canelo got his 2nd breath, and started throwing wild and dangerous punches, Floyd would immediately run away scared and avoid trading at all costs.

Anyways I know this is just wasted time and space for Floyd's admirers such as you. I respect everybody's opinions. If you have a thrill watching a 100% defensive "fighter" with a cowardly style where avoiding getting hit is all that really matters, then good for you, enjoy watching him fight, but there are some of us who prefer the opposite: exciting fighters who may not be so skilled at defending themselves at all costs --even doing trickery and cheating-- but have decent defense skills and will definitely do what they are supposed to do: hit the opponent as much as they possibly can, and try to knock them out.

And yes, all the unquestionably-ATG champs Floyd has fought have been out of prime champs: De la Hoya, Mosley, even JMM, at the worst shape of his fighting career to boot, and of course Cotto, who IMO will be an ATG, but just barely one, compared to the other three mentioned. And now Pacquiao on May 2nd, who, even though younger than Floyd in age,he is even more out of prime than Floyd himself, because Manny has fought way more battles than Floyd and he was KO'd unconscious recently. Many fighters would have retired after a brutal KO like that, but Manny is a warrior unlike Floyd.

If your guy wins (in a non-controversial fashion that is) that won't mean he will be seen as TBE by most people. Not even close to that. Robinson, Leonard, Ali and many others such as Hagler, Hearns, Duran, will still be above him, to most people interested in boxing I believe. Even Pacquiao himself, because of his titles in so many different weight divisions.

So, good luck trying to convince others that Floyd is TBE, in case you are another one of his die-hard admirers who seem to believe he really is!

[HURTFEELINGS]

"I say this to you today and I really believe it and its true, that since Ali, there hasn’t been a better fighter, better boxer than Floyd Mayweather. This young man has the teqhnique and the ability which puts him in my book ahead of such greats as Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvin Hagler and all the other great fighters that I’ve seen in my career. And there is NOBODY that combines all the skills of Floyd mayweather." -BOB ARUM

[HURTFEELINGS]

OK, here's some answers to your "test":

"Only" 22 of his fights have been in Vegas. How many of his latest ones have been there? How many of his MOST IMPORTANT ones have been there? How many of his most controversial ones have happened there?

I have seen a few of his fights re-played. He clinches on an as-needed basis, not 100% of the time, I will give you that. So he clinched when he needed to, vs. Maidana. He didn't need to clinch vs. Canelo because Canelo was so slow, clumsy and drained. He clinched vs. Guerrero to stop him, when he needed it. He clinched A WHOLE LOT vs. Ortiz, and I'm sure that Ortiz ended up head-butting him so blatantly because of that non-penalized excessive clinching.

Boring and cowardly, do I really need to explain??? His being boring is obvious, he never wants to trade punches, never wants to finish off his opponents to avoid the risk of getting hit. Tell me a single fight where he was involved, that was fight of the year? Even Bradley has been involved in one of those!
His being cowardly is equally as evident. His whole fighting game is avoiding getting hit at all costs. That "shoulder roll technique" is so pathetic, the very stance looks so cowardly, it's a flinching stance by nature. It's standing in an "I'm scared don't hit me" kind of fashion, it looks ridiculous and unsightly, the very emblem of a cowardly "fighter" and sadly many other "fighters" are adopting it instead of learning to be aggressive and defend themselves in an orthodox fashion, that is, by punching the other guy.

One fight that comes to mind where he blatantly ran and he was booed by the crowd, was vs. Canelo. He literally RAN away from him in a couple of the latest rounds, avoiding fighting at all costs. Also, every time Canelo tried to start hitting him repeatedly, Floyd ran away scared. I remember him running away from Guerrero as well, even though the latter was every bit as slow as Canelo both in legs and arms and Floyd actually did harm him.

I don't keep tabs of his catch weight fights as you may do because I'm sure you are his admirer, but I don't care about him.

But let's see, I know that two of his most important fights, if not THE most important fights he has ever had, other than the De la Hoya fight (where he was NOT the main draw) were catch weights, where he had the advantage by far.

Against JMM, Floyd made him fight two divisions above his current natural fighting weight, which was lightweight. Also Floyd came in overweight to the weigh-in by a few pounds and was much heavier, lean, muscular and in shape than poor pathetic JMM, who was fat, out of shape, slow, and much lighter than Floyd. I was really embarrassed by such a bully-type fight, a much bigger, taller, in-shape guy (Floyd) with all the possible physical advantages on his side, vs. a shorter, much smaller, out of shape guy, with a huge reach disadvantage as well. End even so, Floyd promised a knock out yet he could never deliver. Also, JMM delivered several nice blows on Floyd's face and body, but of course the judges didn't give him any rounds and made it look like a total blowout when it really wasn't, JMM scored easily 3-4 rounds in that fight but got no credit because he looked so small and weak against his bully, much bigger and leaner opponent.

Against Canelo, even if it was just a couple of pounds below the division weight, it was just enough to drain him and make him look like a living corpse during the weigh-in and it made him even slower, clumsier and more stamina-less than usual. Canelo tends to be hit easily at times, by just everybody because he gets tired, but this time he was worse than usual and Floyd took advantage of that several times, but every time Canelo got his 2nd breath, and started throwing wild and dangerous punches, Floyd would immediately run away scared and avoid trading at all costs.

Anyways I know this is just wasted time and space for Floyd's admirers such as you. I respect everybody's opinions. If you have a thrill watching a 100% defensive "fighter" with a cowardly style where avoiding getting hit is all that really matters, then good for you, enjoy watching him fight, but there are some of us who prefer the opposite: exciting fighters who may not be so skilled at defending themselves at all costs --even doing trickery and cheating-- but have decent defense skills and will definitely do what they are supposed to do: hit the opponent as much as they possibly can, and try to knock them out.

And yes, all the unquestionably-ATG champs Floyd has fought have been out of prime champs: De la Hoya, Mosley, even JMM, at the worst shape of his fighting career to boot, and of course Cotto, who IMO will be an ATG, but just barely one, compared to the other three mentioned. And now Pacquiao on May 2nd, who, even though younger than Floyd in age,he is even more out of prime than Floyd himself, because Manny has fought way more battles than Floyd and he was KO'd unconscious recently. Many fighters would have retired after a brutal KO like that, but Manny is a warrior unlike Floyd.

If your guy wins (in a non-controversial fashion that is) that won't mean he will be seen as TBE by most people. Not even close to that. Robinson, Leonard, Ali and many others such as Hagler, Hearns, Duran, will still be above him, to most people interested in boxing I believe. Even Pacquiao himself, because of his titles in so many different weight divisions.

So, good luck trying to convince others that Floyd is TBE, in case you are another one of his die-hard admirers who seem to believe he really is!

A BUNCH OF BVLLSHAT! NORMAL PACROID HATING and now After Pacroid gets beat it doesnt matter...lol. It matters

[Wizardsh]

For all the people saying why has Bob changed his mind since he said Floyd was better or on the same level as ALI.

You ***ing dumb kunts, he said that with his promoter's hat on, I swear the average posters IQ on this forum is below 10.

Pretty much this, end thread

[aboutfkntime]

Comparing fighters from different times is like comparing apples to oranges people. While they are both fruit, its just not the same; you just can't compare both of them. There are way too many variables: sports science, weight, styles, etc., getting into this type of argument goes nowhere.

With that said Floyd is not some boogeyman, while I give the man total credit for what he has done for himself and I respect his ability, and it is quite the ability, he is not unbeatable.

You can !

It is beyond the scope of the average boxing fan, thats all.

It is only apples vs oranges when folks mix the criteria.

If you use one standard, and one standard only, it is possible alright.

It comes down to who they fought, with consideration given to when they fought..... and thats it.

To do so, you would need to be an expert on the opponents across different era's, which is difficult.

It only becomes impossible when folks mix in additional criteria.

It is more correct to say this.....

..... It is only possible to compare fighters from different era's if you remove the fluffery and solely focus on who they beat, and when.

Folks add in, P4P, lineal, and a whole bunch of ridiculous criteria that did not even apply back in the day..... they consider P4P, which is completely theoretical..... they consider lineal titles, despite many greats never fighting in an era where they had/needed a lineal champ..... they consider the amount of divisions from the 17 available, despite there only being 8 back in the day, and despite the fact that heavyweights only fight in 1 division.

The true students of the game deserve more credit.

[crex.af]

You can !

It is beyond the scope of the average boxing fan, thats all.

It is only apples vs oranges when folks mix the criteria.

If you use one standard, and one standard only, it is possible alright.

It comes down to who they fought, with consideration given to when they fought..... and thats it.

To do so, you would need to be an expert on the opponents across different era's, which is difficult.

It only becomes impossible when folks mix in additional criteria.

It is more correct to say this.....

..... It is only possible to compare fighters from different era's if you remove the fluffery and solely focus on who they beat, and when.

Folks add in, P4P, lineal, and a whole bunch of ridiculous criteria that did not even apply back in the day..... they consider P4P, which is completely theoretical..... they consider lineal titles, despite many greats never fighting in an era where they had/needed a lineal champ..... they consider the amount of divisions from the 17 available, despite there only being 8 back in the day, and despite the fact that heavyweights only fight in 1 division.

The true students of the game deserve more credit.

While you make some pretty good points I still disagree that you cannot compare fighters from different eras. My main reasoning behind this comes down to the huge strides in sports and health science; I believe that athletes today, especially fighters, have a bigger advantage because of these advancements. While many fans might jump at me for saying this, I believe that boxers today are better because they take advantage of the science: better nutrition, better training, and none of the myths. With that said maybe the legends of the past would have been that much better had they too had the advantage that fighters today have.

I do agree that there is a lot of fluff, politics, money, nationality, and even skin color that come into play that shouldn't. A true boxing fan should hope the best man wins, but I think, in my most honest opinion, that skin color and nationality have a lot to do with it.

Truth is no one knows and no one will ever know who the best was/is, that is the only fact. While it’s fun to argue it’s more fun to sit back with friends, have a few cold ones, and enjoy the fight.

[puroylan]

One thing I can predict, whoever loose in this fight will affect the fans in this forum and fans of the loser might probably get depressed and won't visit this forum for a while. Cannot wait for the fight! I hope it will be fight of the year and century. Peace out!

[aboutfkntime]

While you make some pretty good points I still disagree that you cannot compare fighters from different eras. My main reasoning behind this comes down to the huge strides in sports and health science; I believe that athletes today, especially fighters, have a bigger advantage because of these advancements. While many fans might jump at me for saying this, I believe that boxers today are better because they take advantage of the science: better nutrition, better training, and none of the myths. With that said maybe the legends of the past would have been that much better had they too had the advantage that fighters today have.

I do agree that there is a lot of fluff, politics, money, nationality, and even skin color that come into play that shouldn't. A true boxing fan should hope the best man wins, but I think, in my most honest opinion, that skin color and nationality have a lot to do with it.

Truth is no one knows and no one will ever know who the best was/is, that is the only fact. While it’s fun to argue it’s more fun to sit back with friends, have a few cold ones, and enjoy the fight.

You made a great point !

In fact, you made the only point.

The thing is this.....

If you rate the opponents as I suggested, then advancement in technology becomes redundant.

That way, you are rating a guy based on how he compares with his peers TODAY.... and not directly comparing him across era's.

If you award points to a fighter, based on who he beat, then it negates the necessity to compare them directly.

Let me give you a very simplistic example.

And BTW, I am in no way suggesting that I am enough of an expert to do this comprehensively..... that is why I stated that the true historians and students of the game likely deserve more credit...... because it is the ability to rate opponents across era's, that allows you to compare greats between era's.

That very simplistic example.....
Ali's 3 best wins rate higher than Mayweathers 3 best wins, based on the quality of those 3 opponents in the era that they each fought in.

Of Ali's 3 best wins, I score his opponents (out of 10/10) a 9, 8, and 8.

Of Mayweathers..... a 8, 8, and 7 (that is making two assumptions, one of which could happen on May 2nd).

Thats why I rate Ali higher than Mayweather, even though Mayweather is likely better than Ali P4P.

Mayweather has an an outstanding body of work, remarkable really, but should longevity against a plethora of world-class fighters (like 20 champions in a row lol) rate higher than 3 wins against giants?

Nobody said it was easy, but it is possible, they do the same in mororsport.

[aboutfkntime]

motorsport *