Did Pavlik ruin Jermain Taylor?

[daggum]

no taylor was never that good. he was getting hurt against hopkins so his handlers matched him with 3 light punching southpaws wright, spinks, ouma. when an orthodox fighter with better punching power than hopkins came around it was lights out. no surprise. then they matched him with froch...no surprise. then with abraham no surprise...now they are matching him with soloman and mora finally they are going back to what was working.

[IronDanHamza]

no taylor was never that good. he was getting hurt against hopkins so his handlers matched him with 3 light punching southpaws wright, spinks, ouma. when an orthodox fighter with better punching power than hopkins came around it was lights out. no surprise. then they matched him with froch...no surprise. then with abraham no surprise...now they are matching him with soloman and mora finally they are going back to what was working.

Exactly.

He wasn't "ruined" and if he was it definitely wasn't Hopkins doing.

He's just not that good and has a poor gass tank and not a great chin either he's showed that time and time again.

[IMDAZED]

How did Hopkins ruin him?

Exposed him, took his confidence away. Beat him down too although that rarely gets mention here. I don't think Taylor looked the same at all after those two fights. Not that he was ever that great. Not sure if it was mental or physical. Maybe both.

[Rostov Papa]

I think a combnation of Pavlik/Froch did... Pavlik really did a numer on him in that first fight, when he knocked him out cold after he was slumped out in the corner.

But the second fight, I think he really gave it all he had, and trained as hard as he could, and despite putting up a good fight, was outboxed this time by Pavlik.

I think this really disheartened him, and he never trained the same after this. I also think he thought Froch was "some Eurobum" and ths further added to him not wanting to give it 110% training, which is why he gassed, and his heart kept him in it through the 12th... And the beating he took for it officially ended him.

It was just brain-damage/perma-damage time against Abraham. I mean, Abraham was outboxng him, even!

[IronDanHamza]

Exposed him, took his confidence away. Beat him down too although that rarely gets mention here. I don't think Taylor looked the same at all after those two fights. Not that he was ever that great. Not sure if it was mental or physical. Maybe both.

Not at all, Hopkins was just the first good fighter he fought.

Plus he won both anyway, even if you scored both to Hopkins, both close, he still won both officially.

And the second one he looked better anyway.

He was also beating Pavlik and looked great till he faded as always, so he looked fine until then, and Hopkins didn't do anything to his gass tank.

If anyone "ruined" Taylor, Hopkins is the last one who did it.

[daggum]

Exactly.

He wasn't "ruined" and if he was it definitely wasn't Hopkins doing.

He's just not that good and has a poor gass tank and not a great chin either he's showed that time and time again.

taylor was like the opposite of glen johnson/herrera/matthysse. those guys got unlucky a bunch of times on the cards and their reputations suffered where as taylor got lucky a bunch of times and his reputation was inflated because of it. not that he sucks or anything he just didn't have that extra gear to put him in the elite ranks, his extra gear was suspect judging.

[IMDAZED]

Not at all, Hopkins was just the first good fighter he fought.

Plus he won both anyway, even if you scored both to Hopkins, both close, he still won both officially.

And the second one he looked better anyway.

He was also beating Pavlik and looked great till he faded as always, so he looked fine until then, and Hopkins didn't do anything to his gass tank.

If anyone "ruined" Taylor, Hopkins is the last one who did it.

I didn't think the first fight was very close but I was shocked at how well Taylor did in the rematch. Hopkins was very cautious.

You have a point regarding Hopkins being the first good fighter he fought -- I agree. And I also think it was a rude awakening for him. Didn't seem confident to me at all after that fight. Even in the way he fought. Just weird. As for the Pavlik fight, he caught him, hurt him and looked great for two rounds. His speed and power are always dangerous early. But when Pavlik was still standing there, his confidence disappeared second by second. And with that, his stamina/will.

[IronDanHamza]

I didn't think the first fight was very close but I was shocked at how well Taylor did in the rematch. Hopkins was very cautious.

You have a point regarding Hopkins being the first good fighter he fought -- I agree. And I also think it was a rude awakening for him. Didn't seem confident to me at all after that fight. Even in the way he fought. Just weird. As for the Pavlik fight, he caught him, hurt him and looked great for two rounds. His speed and power are always dangerous early. But when Pavlik was still standing there, his confidence disappeared second by second. And with that, his stamina/will.

Just don't agree.

Don't see the difference between Taylor from Hopkins 2 and Taylor in Pavlik 1.

Or the 3 fights prior.

If anyone knocked his confidence, I would say Wright did more than Hopkins considered it was a draw and a lot of people thought he lost, more so than they did with Hopkins.

[IMDAZED]

Just don't agree.

Don't see the difference between Taylor from Hopkins 2 and Taylor in Pavlik 1.

Or the 3 fights prior.

If anyone knocked his confidence, I would say Wright did more than Hopkins considered it was a draw and a lot of people thought he lost, more so than they did with Hopkins.

Agree to disagree. Don't think it was the Wright fight at all. That was just confirmation IMO.

[Humean]

The only guy that genuinely ruined him was Abraham. Taylor's flaws were simply taken advantage of by a string of good quality opponents who had the right attributes and level of skill to ultimately get the better of him.