Official Tyson Fury vs Christian Hammer & Undercards RbR/Discussion thread

[Ravens Fan]

Lol. You ask me who they were ranked by, then tell me not to bother answering, because you don't agree with the rankings anyway?

Then you tell me yourself that Chisora was No6 with Boxrec, and ask me why that was?

Well, I'm not on the Boxrec ranking panel, but I presume they had Chisora at No6 because they thought that was where he deserved to be.

So here's a question for you - if you think the rankings are a joke, then why make an issue about where Fury's opponents were ranked?

Have a nice Xmas. Hope you enjoy the ***** eggnog!

I didn't make an issue of their rankings. You mentioned it and I simply gave an opinion.

[D-MiZe]

Fury on that crab walkin' tip.

"peeleft:

[Ravens Fan]

What are you talking about? Find me one place where I've said Fury has a good resume. I said "at the very least" he's beaten some ex champions and contenders. how the hell do you get that as meaning I'm bigging Fury up? Seriously, sometimes (most times) you are so blinded by love for Wlad that you don't see what I'm writing.

I stand by my comment that Cunningham has only basic skills and isn't a very good heavyweight and was never an elite cruiserweight. However, when Fury beat him did he not come off a very good fight against then top 10 contender, Adamek? Yes he did.

In comparison, Wilder's best win, Scott, came off a KO defeat to the man Fury beat twice with ease. I mean, can't you see Fury's resume craps all over Wilder's? Even though it's not good itself.

I wasn't saying it was much, I clearly said "at the very least".

Chisora did beat Helenius who was ranked well within the top 10. He also gave Vitali Klitschko and David Haye some tough fights before proceeding to knockout Scott.

If Chisora and Johnson were good enough to fight Klitschko, they are for sure good enough to fight Tyson Fury. Let's leave that there.

"some were not his fault" - Well, he had 20 or so fights when he stepped up to fight Haye. Wouldn't you say that's a decent step-up for a guy with 20 fights? I would.

I briefly mentioned Wlad to someone else and other then that he wasn't part of the conversation. That is until you dragged him into it. I also never said you were bigging Fury up, and I am not sure that I even want to know what that means. I just simply asked you if the ex-champion you were speaking of is the same one you spent a lot time discrediting just last week. I was just curious.

I have also expressed my opinions on Chisora and Johnson more then once. Therefore, I will no longer waste anymore time on why I believe they are far from contenders. By the way you are also misquoting yourself. And regardless of his intentions Fury never fought Haye so in the end it really means nothing. I also believe that Fury should feel fortunate that the fight never happened.

I also said that I agreed with you that Fury has a better resume. And for some reason you still seem confused. So lets see if I can make it easier to understand. I believe Fury has taken an easy well choreographed path to a mandatory position. As far as Wilder is concerned he has taken a pathetically easy path to a title fight. So to me its simple both easy paths just one was much easier then the other. Again not much difference to me.

In closing I will touch on Cunningham. Regardless of what your opinions are of him he was as at one time an elite fighter. That is not even my opinion because he was one of the best in his division for a few years and that by definitive makes him an elite fighter. And I honestly believe you need to look up the definition of the word elite because in my opinion it is ridiculous for you to say otherwise.

[VatoMulatto]

I hope this is just a rumor cause Hammer is horrible. Nobody wants to see Fury take on some F-level dude.

[The Hammer]

Fury should be fighting:

- Thompson (old but still tough and he's a decent-sized man)
- Wach (closer to his size, slow but a very strong and durable boxer)
- Ustinov (to whom he owes a fight after pulling out)
- Browne (smaller than Fury but still a big, strong man who can punch)

Hammer is too short, he doesn't have enough reach and doesn't punch hard at all. He has no chance of winning whatsoever.

[yoz]

Fury should be fighting:

- Thompson (old but still tough and he's a decent-sized man)
- Wach (closer to his size, slow but a very strong and durable boxer)
- Ustinov (to whom he owes a fight after pulling out)
- Browne (smaller than Fury but still a big, strong man who can punch)

Hammer is too short, he doesn't have enough reach and doesn't punch hard at all. He has no chance of winning whatsoever.

The same can be said for almost all of Fury's opponents to date. All of the guys you mention above are too dangerous (save, perhaps, Browne, who looks to have found his level).

Hammer has a chance. Heck, if an overweight Firtha had him stunned and feather-fisted small heavies such as Pajkic and Cunningham put him down, anything is possible.

The guy is a joke. Wladimir should call him out - I bet he'd run to the hills.

[LacedUp]

[/B]

Why? He isn't fighting Hammer to prepare for Wlad, this is about staying busy/earning money. Fury needs to do both after a year out and 3 wasted training camps due to the Haye fiasco and Chisora's hand injury.

It looks like Wlad is aiming for the WBC belt via Bryant Jennings. If Fury ever does fight him, he's probably going to have to wait quite a while for his chance.

I'm sure he'll prepare himself properly if and when he gets the fight, in the gym with tall sparring partners and probably a tune up also.

Merry Xmas to you mate.

Why is he fighting him then? Not for the fans, that's for sure. He's the mandatory to Klitschko, it would probably be a good idea to fight someone of his height just once in your career before stepping in. That's my opinion.

Same to you mate.

I briefly mentioned Wlad to someone else and other then that he wasn't part of the conversation. That is until you dragged him into it. I also never said you were bigging Fury up, and I am not sure that I even want to know what that means. I just simply asked you if the ex-champion you were speaking of is the same one you spent a lot time discrediting just last week. I was just curious.

I have also expressed my opinions on Chisora and Johnson more then once. Therefore, I will no longer waste anymore time on why I believe they are far from contenders. By the way you are also misquoting yourself. And regardless of his intentions Fury never fought Haye so in the end it really means nothing. I also believe that Fury should feel fortunate that the fight never happened.

I also said that I agreed with you that Fury has a better resume. And for some reason you still seem confused. So lets see if I can make it easier to understand. I believe Fury has taken an easy well choreographed path to a mandatory position. As far as Wilder is concerned he has taken a pathetically easy path to a title fight. So to me its simple both easy paths just one was much easier then the other. Again not much difference to me.

In closing I will touch on Cunningham. Regardless of what your opinions are of him he was as at one time an elite fighter. That is not even my opinion because he was one of the best in his division for a few years and that by definitive makes him an elite fighter. And I honestly believe you need to look up the definition of the word elite because in my opinion it is ridiculous for you to say otherwise.

Well Fury is mandatory for Wlad, he'd already been mentioned and he's in serious talks of fighting another guy in April, I think it makes sense to talk about him. and you know, he's the champ so all roads lead to him.

You mentioned I gave Fury a pass for his opponents but I'm picking Wlad apart. And yes of course, Wlad is the champ! He's supposed to fight better opposition than someone like Fury. The whole problem with Wlad is that his fans actually don't care whether he fights good or bad opposition. They'll praise him either way. I can't stand a cherry pick and it doesn't matter if it's from my favourite fighter or someone I don't particularly like. And I'll say it either way.

No I am not confused, I think you are. You said you'd give Fury "a little extra credit than Wilder, but..". And I said at least he'd fought ranked fighters, ex champions and ex contenders. I didn't try to say any of them were superstars, but they would all crap right on Wilder's entire resume.

With regards to Cunningham, and I followed most of his 'prime career' - He is not elite and never was. He was never considered elite. He was considered a good cruiser weight. He was never the main man, so how could he ever be elite? Especially in a division that's not very deep. And when he did fight top competition, he usually lost.

[Hougigo]

Fury should be fighting:

- Thompson (old but still tough and he's a decent-sized man)
- Wach (closer to his size, slow but a very strong and durable boxer)
- Ustinov (to whom he owes a fight after pulling out)
- Browne (smaller than Fury but still a big, strong man who can punch)

Hammer is too short, he doesn't have enough reach and doesn't punch hard at all. He has no chance of winning whatsoever.

Thompson got that rematch with the Cuban though

[Ravens Fan]

Well Fury is mandatory for Wlad, he'd already been mentioned and he's in serious talks of fighting another guy in April, I think it makes sense to talk about him. and you know, he's the champ so all roads lead to him.

You mentioned I gave Fury a pass for his opponents but I'm picking Wlad apart. And yes of course, Wlad is the champ! He's supposed to fight better opposition than someone like Fury. The whole problem with Wlad is that his fans actually don't care whether he fights good or bad opposition. They'll praise him either way. I can't stand a cherry pick and it doesn't matter if it's from my favourite fighter or someone I don't particularly like. And I'll say it either way.

No I am not confused, I think you are. You said you'd give Fury "a little extra credit than Wilder, but..". And I said at least he'd fought ranked fighters, ex champions and ex contenders. I didn't try to say any of them were superstars, but they would all crap right on Wilder's entire resume.

With regards to Cunningham, and I followed most of his 'prime career' - He is not elite and never was. He was never considered elite. He was considered a good cruiser weight. He was never the main man, so how could he ever be elite? Especially in a division that's not very deep. And when he did fight top competition, he usually lost.

Did you not state numerous times that the WBO and their rankings mean nothing to you? I know you said it so if the rankings mean nothing to you why would a mandatory position carry any weight with you?

The reason I even mentioned Wlad is because you said something silly like, I am paraphrasing; "You are so blinded by your love for Wlad that you cannot see what I said." Well, I wasn't blinded by anything and I will say it once again he wasn't even the topic of the conversation until you showed up.

I also know that you believe Wlad is cherry picking. Let me ask you who is he supposed to fight especially in the USA? Fury makes no sense and why? Because Fury is so unknown in the USA that his big fight with Chisora was buried so deep on ESPN3.com that I had to download some new flash thingy just so I could watch it. Wilder is obviously tied up so who else is there, Tarver?

So, who does Wlad focus on? Just the best available American heavyweight who also happens to be ranked in the top ten by Ring magazine. I honestly give Jennings no chance. But I also believe that Wlad has so few choices and the whole WBC also plays into it.

With that said if Wlad is cherry picking fighters out of Rings top ten who also happen to be in their prime, I really don't have a problem with it. But, that is not to say that I haven't had issues with some of Wlad's previous opponents because I have.

You seem to think that just because I'm a Wlad fan that I am somehow not living in reality. But honestly my mental state is fine and as I have stated I have had issues with some of Wlad's previous opponents. We can start with Mormeck.

As far as I am concerned you can draw a line right through that fight in the record books. Because it simply should not have happened. I also had issues with Wach because beating the likes of Tye Fields should never ever under any circumstances but a fighter in line for a shot at the heavyweight title.

I could go on but I believe you get the point and I don't believe it is necessary. However, in fairness to Wlad, you had to know that was coming, I believe it is all part of the normal process. Simply because Wlad is far from the only one to cherry pick.

Because any champion in any division that has had multiple title fights has had their share of cherry picks. And even though Joe Louis' so called Bum of the Month Club has become a bit of a misnomer. I still guarantee you that there is at least a handful or so of the fighters that Joe fought in no way shape or form deserved to be fighting for the HW title.

Ali also had his share, one example Jean Pierre Coopman, and more recently Larry Holmes who fought some god awful fighters in title fights, one example Scott Frank. Holmes also attempted to fight 10-0 Marvis Frazier in a title fight. They did in fact fight but the WBC refused to sanction it as a title fight as Holmes violently destroyed poor ole Marvis in the first round. Think about that for a minute, as crooked as the WBC can be the organization refused to take money for that fight. What else needs to be said about the legitimacy of that particular fight?

Does any of that make it right? I am not debating that but what it does is present evidence that Wlad is far from alone with his so called cherry picking. As I stated it has been a pretty common occurrence and that was only the heavyweights I focused on.

You also stated that you expect more from a heavyweight champion. Well you see I feel the same about fighters that claim that they are the number one contender when in reality they have done so little to get themselves in that position.

Especially when you have ones, such as Fury and Wilder, who's trash talking far exceeds their actual accomplishments inside the ring. Because in a way, as long as it doesn't go overboard, at least a long reigning champ has, in my opinion, earned the right to do some cherry picking. What else, what about the definition of elite?

I believe you are not grasping what the word actually means. So, lets try using a different sport as an example. The Buffalo Bills of the National Football League lost four Super Bowls in a row. Does that mean they were not an elite team? Hell no it doesn't mean that. They were the AFC Champions therefore they were the best in their conference but just couldn't win the big one.

My point being that you don't have to be the big dog or even be the number one best to be elite. Simply because elite can be plural. I also guarantee you that if you took a poll that the majority of the forum members would state that when he was in his prime that Cunningham was in fact an elite fighter. What else? How about Chisora.

You claimed somewhere along the line that Chisora gave Haye a tough fight. I honestly thought I missed something so I re-watched the fight. And just as I thought before hand I had not miss anything because quite frankly Chisora is not a very good fighter.

He walks straight in while winging wild punches. Just about the only solid punches landed were the really wide ones that Haye didn't even see coming. In fairness to him at times he does have a pretty decent jab. He is just way to inconsistent with it while winging those wild punches.

As far as the misquote you added "very" to the quote. I guess for what ever reason you wanted to put more emphasis on the quote the second time around. No big deal but you did quote yourself and it was in fact a misquote.

In closing I will say that at time you attempt to belittle me, by making statements such as I am paraphrasing, you stated something along the lines of, "yet another useless comment from Ravens Fan." I honestly don't care what you think of me or what I say. With that said you do seem to spend an awful lot of time rebutting something that you claim is so useless. I also imagine that denial is so awful to deal with. Now go back to not "bigging up" Fury when you actually are!!

[DownGoesFrazier]

Tyson Fury

Anyone know if Tyson Fury fight is on TV on Saturday?