How would Klitschko's career have looked without the use of illegal tactics?

[Jim Jeffries]

Wladimir is definitely past his prime, even if his terrible recent competition doesn't reveal it. I think Pulev will be a surprisingly tough fight for him. Your points are all very valid here.

Yeah a lot of people are sleeping on Pulev. Nice jab, strong enough to handle the clinches and enough power to keep Wlad off of the throttle.

We haven't had enough of the top HWs fighting each other and when we do, far too many don't seem to take their training seriously enough. But I thoroughly enjoyed Povetkin/Takam and I think Wlad's fight with Pulev will have its moments.

Hopefully we'll see more matchups with guys like Povetkin, Wilder, Glazkov, Pulev, Ruiz and Joshua in the future. More people actually earning their title shots, with wins over those people having more significance.

[beez721]

Do you think an ATG heavyweight would have to go tooth and nail with a figher of Sam's calibre? Do you think that Sam's chin, because of modern training and size is immeasurably better than other heavyweight's punch resistance? and do you think that Sander's qualifies as an awesome puncher who could have beat any great heavweight? Because this is how the Sam victory is used when trying to get Vlad a decent win by many knuckleheads here. Sam was always a ponderous fighter. Toney when taking him seriously had no real problems with him. Do you think Lewis would have problems with Sam? I don't.

I get your point but youre forgetting that wlad was at his absolute worst in terms of confidence etc at the time and peter was very heavy handed and dangerous at that time despite being limited. wlad improved hugely after getting by peter. it showed in the rematch and in his subsequent bouts. I think that was the turning point for wlad in his career

[Jim Jeffries]

I get your point but youre forgetting that wlad was at his absolute worst in terms of confidence etc at the time and peter was very heavy handed and dangerous at that time despite being limited. wlad improved hugely after getting by peter. it showed in the rematch and in his subsequent bouts. I think that was the turning point for wlad in his career

Can't find his post. Maybe I watched a different fight, but it didn't look like Wlad went "tooth and nail" with Peter in the first fight. It looked like Wlad won every round he wasn't rabbit punched and then pushed down. Wlad did seem to have a hard time hurting Peter with the right hand, but the left hook turned Sam's legs to rubber when he finally got around to landing it clean. Regardless, it was a dominating performance.

[Joeyzagz]

Every generation has been labelled as the worst era in history.

And every generation has viewed it as pretty much the death of hw boxing, yet it has endured.

If that's to be believed then things have gotten progressively worse since Sullivan hung up his gloves.

From the taboo, illegal, drunken bum sport of backyard America, to the highly professionalised and globalised sport HW boxing is today, the growth of it's athletes the application of sports science, the roughly quadrupling of the talent pool and the popularisation of boxing, the notion of this being the worst HW era is nothing short of insane.

There has never been an era stronger than what might be termed the Klitschko era, with the single possible exception of arguably the Lewis era.

But this actually IS the worst era for several reasons.

1. Hws now have little to no amateur experience. You got guys competing that honestly dont know how to box jumping in w Klitschko ( WK meanwhile had 140 fights of schooling before going pro)

2. HWs barely fight anymore. Povetkin had Amateur exp yes but only 26 fights before his title shot. Haye had 26 fights(4 at hw) and these are Wlads best opponents

3. Contenders are fighting unranked guys enroute to title shots, instead of fighting each other. (Haye, Povetkin, Deontay, Stiverne, Pulev, Thompson have zero fights between them? you dont find that odd) They fight hometown bums to maintain a gilded 0.

4. Guys are training at KFC Chicken Because there is no weight limit you got guys eating their way to Heavyweight like Flabz Eddie Chambers, kevin Johnson and Chris Arreola. They dont belong


I got several more but those are the core issues.

[LacedUp]

The weak Vlad chin is a bit of a myth. Sanders was a tremendous puncher and most other would have been KOed cold by the punishment he dished out vs Vlad. Vladimir has never been knocked out cold, like Lennox was vs Rahman for instance. Most champions are stopped at some point in their career, I don't see why Vlad should be particularly bad in this case.

And if you are talking clinches, we have the anniversary of Rumble in the Jungle now, look how much Ali tied up Foreman. That made for an ugly fight too.

Prime Ali was nearly knocked out of the ring by a 185lbs Henry Cooper, and was lucky to win that fight too. But no, we almost never hear this mentioned anywhere on these boards.

That wasn't a prime Ali though, and yes that is mentioned and he was careless in that fight because he tried to carry Cooper into the predicted 5th round as he did with almost everyone of his opponents back then.

Vladdy KO carried Povetkin for 12 rounds. He could have Ko'd him at any time. He drilled Povetkin in that fight. They are close friends and Vladdy implemented a HW strategy. Let's not take strategy out of boxing and just toe the line and throw punches either. Having movie star looks, a Hollyweird hottie, and being American would have bolted him to super-stardom in the US...if he were American

Where's the proof that they are close friends? That's a load of rubbish, they both made some derogatory comments toward each other in that last couple of years.

Lol that's so far fetched. Bottom line is that he has a style that no american ever gained a big following by having.

[LacedUp]

Sanders was never considered "mediocre." He was a legit top 10 HW who could hit like a mule and was a southpaw. Vlad needed that KO loss to fix some huge mistakes that he had gotten into and get an American legend to train him.

None of that is true.

Sanders was not in the top 10 at any stage before the Wlad fight.

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Th...yweight--2000s

Sanders was very mediocre and had only fought 2nd and 3rd tier heavyweights. HBO wouldn't even have considered Lewis to fight Sanders! Ever!

[Elroy1]

But this actually IS the worst era for several reasons.

1. Hws now have little to no amateur experience. You got guys competing that honestly dont know how to box jumping in w Klitschko ( WK meanwhile had 140 fights of schooling before going pro)

Actually if you check, todays hw boxers on average have a much STRONGER amateur pedigree than the corresponding boxers of the past. For instance Chagaev and Povetkin. There are only a few who didn't like upcoming Wilder etc. However a lot of the CHAMPS of the past had F/A amateur experience. This is an argument for the STRENGTH of todays era, not against.

2. HWs barely fight anymore. Povetkin had Amateur exp yes but only 26 fights before his title shot. Haye had 26 fights(4 at hw) and these are Wlads best opponents.

HW's fight less than other divisions because at HW the punches deal much more damage. The heavier the hw division gets too, the more convalescence required. In general also, the fact that current or recent generation fighters fight les is because of the professionalization of the sport, as explained earlier. Early in the careers of WK and his opponents, they all fought to a comparable schedule as oldies. At top level now though (the stuff we PPV) these already established boxers do not fight so often and are better off for it.

3. Contenders are fighting unranked guys enroute to title shots, instead of fighting each other. (Haye, Povetkin, Deontay, Stiverne, Pulev, Thompson have zero fights between them? you dont find that odd) They fight hometown bums to maintain a gilded 0.

Somewhat agree.

4. Guys are training at KFC Chicken Because there is no weight limit you got guys eating their way to Heavyweight like Flabz Eddie Chambers, kevin Johnson and Chris Arreola. They dont belong

Kevin Johnson and Chris Arreola are natural HW's regarless of weight issues. Eddie Chambers isn't but in terms of past eras, almost ALL of the boxers were CW's and LHW's etc. Even CHAMPIONS like Frazier and Ali were in the end, overweight Cruisers!

It doesn't matter whether a boxer is chubby at HW so long as his performance is up to scratch. Bringing up Chris Arreola is especially ridiculous here since he can fight hard for 12 rounds proven.

And there were as many chubby boxers back in the day as there are now.

And there are hw boxers that are now more athletic than any boxer from the past.


I got several more but those are the core issues.

So as you can see, some of your points are not very relevant at all!

I left comments under your bolded words.

[Elroy1]

None of that is true.

Sanders was not in the top 10 at any stage before the Wlad fight.

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Th...yweight--2000s

Sanders was very mediocre and had only fought 2nd and 3rd tier heavyweights. HBO wouldn't even have considered Lewis to fight Sanders! Ever!

Don't be ridiculous. Sanders was always considered a dangerous opponent with fire in his fists.

Before he gassed against Rahman (i.e. his major problem) he was winning against him!

[LacedUp]

Don't be ridiculous. Sanders was always considered a dangerous opponent with fire in his fists.

Before he gassed against Rahman (i.e. his major problem) he was winning against him!

No he wasn't. Wlad was expected to squash him like a fly. And he was never in the top 10, in fact, he spent more time on the golf course than in the gym which was also the first thing they asked him about in the post fight interview.

He looked pretty shocked himself to be honest.

He didn't gas, he was hit and hurt after having dropped Rahman twice, who himself was an extremely mediocre opponent. I thought Sanders was stopped a little early in that fight, but whatever.

He's never won against a good opponent other than Klitschko. And he was 37 when he fought Wlad.

[LacedUp]

The odds were 50-1 on an early knockout, but Elroy would have us believe that 37 year old Sanders who never had a big reputation, and was focusing more on reducing his golf handicap than being in the ring was a dangerous fight and one of the hardest puncher's of all time.

Talk about being a fanboy