How would Klitschko's career have looked without the use of illegal tactics?

[Joeyzagz]

Except all of those things were debunked and only one of those points was at all worthy of further investigation.

You only really tried to debunk the point about amateurs, but basically agreed with everything else.

*Fighters fighting less
*Fighters not fighting each other
*Fighters fighting for the last vacant seat at KFC Chicken

[Elroy1]

Who did Pianeta and Mormeck beat to get a shot? Rahman? Peter in the second Wlad fight? Tony Thompson? Leapai?

What about Wach? The latest batch of contenders weren't even contenders, they were just cherry picked by Wlad.

Pianeta beat 2 former champs Botha and McCall and one journeyman Dominiguez with a record of 13-2, much better than the journeymen previous champs opponents beat to core a title shot.

Mormeck was a 6 time CW champs which in previous eras would have been considered 6 world HW titles. No pre80's champ ever fought someone with such credence.

Rahman was 5 fights previously the HW champion and hadn't lost since.

Leapai knocked out Boytsov, unbeaten in over 30 fights and ranked in the top 10.

Thompson KOed 26-12 tune up bum Couser after KOing 30-2 solid opponent Krasniqi. Previous to this he also beat Guinn (26-3) and Ibragimov (28-1), what today we call journeymen but in previous eras, we would call such records excellent in their own right. No previous boxer ever fought an opponent with such a good build up as Tony Thompson did for WK. (Apart from tune up Couser). Additionally Thompson had a nearly unbeaten record.

The fight Wladimir vs Peter 2 was heavily desired by fans and media because of the trouble Peter caused Wladimir in the first encounter. Wladimir was nice enough to grant the hard hitting Peter a rematch, despite apparent risk to his so-called "glass chin" lol.

Wach beat gigantic 49-4 Tye Fields. 49-4 I repeat!!!!! And was completely unbeaten at time of bout with Klitschko, who also for the first time fought somebody who both outweighed AND outranged him.

All in all the fights you specifically indicated reveal that getting the title shot vs Klitschko was not all that easy after all, they either had to have already fought Wladmir, been the HW champ or slugged their way through tough opponents to get there.

Let's now check a few title challengers of the "greatest".

34-11 bum George Chuvalo, got his title shot coming off a LOSS to a 191 lb Cruiser, 11-2 green. In fact, lost 2 of his previous 3 fights before facing Ali!

London, 35-13 bum

Mildenberger, whom Ali claims "hit harder than Frazier " earned his shot by beating 182lbs LHW, 13-9 bum Ivan Predeg!

Cleveland Williams had to fight a wild gunman to get his title shot

Zora Folley, one of the weakest punchers in history had to beat 3 consecutive bums to get his chance (Joyner 22-11, Davis 28-10, Clark 8-2)

The legendary Quarry did it by beating 14-20 Harris. You read that correct yes?

Bonavena, 3 bums Piries15-5 Woody 14-6 Ramos 23-11

Chuvalo rematch with the bum, earned by beating 2 other bums Christopher 8-22, 21-12.

I am bored of fact checking now. I could go on and on.

I think the point should be clear by now.

Today's champs have to fight contenders who earned their title shots by defeating a much better class of opposition than anything from the distant past.

In fact it can be summed up this way, you can ONLY get a title shot today if you are very good, beating someone pretty good in your last run of fights, or have been great etc.

In the past you could get a title shot by beating nothing but bums, you could get a title shot even if you WERE an absolute bum!

[Elroy1]

You only really tried to debunk the point about amateurs, but basically agreed with everything else.

*Fighters fighting less
*Fighters not fighting each other
*Fighters fighting for the last vacant seat at KFC Chicken

Uh uh...

I gave a pretty good crack at the KFC one too I thought!

Today's champs are lean and 6 packed, as are many of their contenders and SOME of them are fat

Previous times Champions themselves were even fat!

In fact, there is nothing wrong with being chubby at HW to be honest. As proven by success throughout history of them. Because HW boxing is a sport where being chubby is not detrimental to performance per se.

[LacedUp]

Pianeta beat 2 former champs Botha and McCall and one journeyman Dominiguez with a record of 13-2, much better than the journeymen previous champs opponents beat to core a title shot.

Mormeck was a 6 time CW champs which in previous eras would have been considered 6 world HW titles. No pre80's champ ever fought someone with such credence.

Rahman was 5 fights previously the HW champion and hadn't lost since.

Leapai knocked out Boytsov, unbeaten in over 30 fights and ranked in the top 10.

Thompson KOed 26-12 tune up bum Couser after KOing 30-2 solid opponent Krasniqi. Previous to this he also beat Guinn (26-3) and Ibragimov (28-1), what today we call journeymen but in previous eras, we would call such records excellent in their own right. No previous boxer ever fought an opponent with such a good build up as Tony Thompson did for WK. (Apart from tune up Couser). Additionally Thompson had a nearly unbeaten record.

The fight Wladimir vs Peter 2 was heavily desired by fans and media because of the trouble Peter caused Wladimir in the first encounter. Wladimir was nice enough to grant the hard hitting Peter a rematch, despite apparent risk to his so-called "glass chin" lol.

Wach beat gigantic 49-4 Tye Fields. 49-4 I repeat!!!!! And was completely unbeaten at time of bout with Klitschko, who also for the first time fought somebody who both outweighed AND outranged him.

All in all the fights you specifically indicated reveal that getting the title shot vs Klitschko was not all that easy after all, they either had to have already fought Wladmir, been the HW champ or slugged their way through tough opponents to get there.

Lol what lies you spew my son. Botha a champion?? Of what? McCall was 47 years old. How can you even mention his name?

Mormeck was 2 time CW champion, and that's CW champion. He'd been knocked out by the guy Wlad just beat 5 years prior and hadn't fought in something like 2 years only once at heavyweight if I remember correctly.

Elise Leapai decisioned Boytsov son, and it was boring. And Boytsov was ***in useless.

Nobody desired a Sam Peter II fight. He had already been smashed up by Wlad and Vitali before. It was a farce.

Wach beat a gigantic bum who Monte Barrett KO'd in 1 round How can you call that a win? hahahaha

[LacedUp]

Uh uh...

I gave a pretty good crack at the KFC one too I thought!

Today's champs are lean and 6 packed, as are many of their contenders and SOME of them are fat

Previous times Champions themselves were even fat!

In fact, there is nothing wrong with being chubby at HW to be honest. As proven by success throughout history of them. Because HW boxing is a sport where being chubby is not detrimental to performance per se.

Which previous champ was fat?

Other than Sam Peter.

[Elroy1]

Which previous champ was fat?

Other than Sam Peter.

Ali was chubby for half his career and Frazier was only ever in shape occasionally.

Peter was of course fat at some point but he was once ripped to the point where his 6 pack was ripping above his shortline.

You will not find too many pics of Ali like that.

[LacedUp]

Ali was chubby for half his career and Frazier was only ever in shape occasionally.

Peter was of course fat at some point but he was once ripped to the point where his 6 pack was ripping above his shortline.

You will not find too many pics of Ali like that.

This is literally the first photo google shows me of "muhammad ali"

[Elroy1]

This is literally the first photo google shows me of "muhammad ali"

Damn that was easier than I'd thought!! Must have been a very early one. Got me good that time

I'll have to atleast go one better then...

http://beatsboxingmayhem.files.wordp...0/09/peter.jpg

Now THAT'S what a HW looks like!

[Elroy1]

I guess my main point is, is that Peter looked like this when he was in the range of 230lbs.

Muhammad Ali looked like that when he was 210 or below.

When Ali weighed 215+, what today we would CALL a HW, he didn't look anything like that!

Of course Peter didn't remain so trim either.

[LacedUp]

Damn that was easier than I'd thought!! Must have been a very early one. Got me good that time

I'll have to atleast go one better then...

http://beatsboxingmayhem.files.wordp...0/09/peter.jpg

Now THAT'S what a HW looks like!

lol and in which world did the bodybuilders make good boxers?

If Peter wasn't so damn built and later fat, he might have been able to fight for more than 3 rounds.

I guess my main point is, is that Peter looked like this when he was in the range of 230lbs.

Muhammad Ali looked like that when he was 210 or below.

When Ali weighed 215+, what today we would CALL a HW, he didn't look anything like that!

Of course Peter didn't remain so trim either.

Well, that photo is of him weighing in exactly 215 vs Liston.

So you're wrong again. As usual.