Has Ward fought anyone as skilled/good as Kovalev/Golovkin?

[King_]

Froch and Kessler are better. Especially in the years he fought them. I mean Froch went on to KO undefeated Bute and undefeated Groves twice. Kessler went on to beat Froch and KO Green. Also, both Froch and Kessler went on to become champions again. Froch holds two belts and is #1 ranked SMW.

IMO, Edwin Rodriguez beats Golovkin in similar fashion to Grachev, but in later rounds. I know i'll have rocks thrown at me and be chased with pitchforks for that, but Rodriguez style and size is all wrong for GGG. Rodriguez is better than anyone GGG has fought, for sure.

Can you tell me what makes them special? Read my post on the bottom of page 2.


Any specifics as to what makes Froch/Kessler better/good, besides them fighting each other/other top 168lbers? I mean like a legit breakdown of skill.

[Doctor_Tenma]

That doesn't make him "not well-rounded." I didn't call him flawless. No fighter is flawless. Not even Ward. If Ward was flawless he wouldn't have gotten knocked down by Darnell Boone.

Well rounded does not equal flawless.


Do you have a response to my question about what makes the 168lbers special besides the fact that they fought each other?

I didn't say you called him flawless, just like no one said any of those 3, Kessler, Froch and Abraham are special. Only person in this thread alluding to that thought process is you.

Kovalev isn't well rounded regardless.

[King_]

I didn't say you called him flawless, just like no one said any of those 3, Kessler, Froch and Abraham are special. Only person in this thread alluding to that thought process is you.

Kovalev isn't well rounded regardless.

Okay if they aren't special and no ones responding to me, then what gives?

I can give a detailed breakdown of what makes Golovkin and Kovalev special. Nobody, mainly people who hate on GGG/Krusher but nuthug Froch/Kessler becuse they fought Ward can't give one on them?


Am I missing something or does this not prove everything I'm saying about weak eras/overrated, etc...... right?


And Kovalev is well-rounded. He has good footwoork, average hand speed, he fights going forward..... and has a solid defense while fighting in a style that disallows defense. Ask Max Kellerman or any non-subjective boxing analyst about Kovalevs defense and they will say it's as good as it gets for a fighter with his style. He has boxing skill, great power in both hands. He doesn't plod forward like the guys I mentioned, he's smart, calculated and cuts the ring off well. etc. What makes him not well-rounded?

[Doctor_Tenma]

Can you tell me what makes them special? Read my post on the bottom of page 2.


Any specifics as to what makes Froch/Kessler better/good, besides them fighting each other/other top 168lbers? I mean like a legit breakdown of skill.

Here we go again, no one said they were special

For the most part, none of the fighters that have been mentioned in this thread are special. In my opinion it's only Ward, Golovkin looks to be the part but looks can be deceiving which is why he needs to up his opposition.

For the record I believe Golovkin is the real deal, I've expressed that many times but my own eyes have deceived me before.

[LouIE G]

He's beaten everyone in his path. I agree. But so has Golovkin..... its not fair to call his ducks anything other then unofficial wins. Quillin, Murray, Sturm, etc.... all clearly ducked him. So lets just say he beat them. Okay, he beat Macklin, Stevens and Geale.... the first two were top 10 at 160 when he fought them. Geale was top 5.


So with all of that said..... what's the difference between rating him P4P and Ward?


Ward hasn't fought anybody as well-rounded as Kovalev or Golovkin. None of the guys can even dream of doing the things they can do in the ring. If you disagree, disprove me. Fact of the matter is all of the guys Ward beat at 168 are no skilled, tough guys brawlers with good chins.

King bro, ward outlasted the best in the division and won the super six tournament.... that accomplishment alone says ward is ahead of GGG On any unbiased p4p list.... if GGG can win a round robin like that against the divisions best then i could say GGG is p4p. But until then..... kova has his chance nov. 8 hopefully GGG Will have his next year.

[MPX309]

I'm not asking who Ward has faced. I know who he has faced. Did you even read my posts?


I'm saying the guys he faced were products of a weak division and weak era. Just like how Wlad's top HW opponents "wouldn't be competitive in any other era" Pulev, Povetkin, etc (according to some posters)


Well I'm saying the same with Froch, Kessler, Abraham and Bika.


Are you going to tell me what they can do/did that's so special. Read how I described them on the last post of page 2, and tell me are they anything more then that? Come on now.

Well I can't say much for Abraham, he looked terrible in his last fight, and Bika I've always considered a gatekeeper, but Froch, has had some good victories under his belt, jean Pascal, Bute (probably a shot Bute but whatever) and many others, the dude is still 33-2 and the point I'm trying to make is that Ward still made him look very average. You're asking me to make a case for the skillset of the opponents Ward has beaten, when both GGG and Kov haven't even beaten opponents which are on Froch's level (IMHO) . . . and that goes back to what I'm saying. GGG or Kov haven't beaten anyone as good as Ward yet, so how can you say they'd shut him out?

I'm not saying it wouldn't happen, anything is possible, especially when you hit as hard as those to do, but Ward is where he is for a reason.

In regards to Daniel Geale, I think he is GGG's best opponent to date, but he is still nothing special. GGG clears out 160 easy though.

[T18Z]

That is actually a good point, Froch, Kessler, Bika etc... they've all gained their reputations from fighting and beating each other right? Before each of them fought one another, were any of them really classed as 'excellent' or elite?

I mean it does seem like they're all just feeding off each other a little bit too much. I've always been quite disheartened by the current 168 fighters and their inability to ever move down/up, even if temporarily.

[FeFist]

Once again.... can you answer my question or can you only repond with "Ward has fought better fighters" ? Read the thread.




Come on Larry.... or anybody else. Are you guys going to tell me what makes Froch, Kessler, Abraham or Bika special???? (besides them all fighting each other)


Can anybody disprove what I'm saying of them: (aside from Kessler) They're all tough guys with good chins, none of them are good boxers, all of them mindlessly plod forward and they're all slow. None of them has better then above-average power and none of them have the complete skillset that Kovalev and Golovkin possess.


Anybody?

Why should I waste my time explaining things to an individual who is wilfully ignorant? All the things I could say would be met with denial on your end.

[hhs661]

If only being more "skilled" meant everything. I myself thought Zab was highly skilled and would never lose to a guy like baldomir. Or his skillset might be too much vs Tsyzu.. Little did I know then that the mental part of the game counts for something as well. Along with other factors like discipline, stamina, having more than one gamelan, utilizing whatever skills you might have and taking away your opponents all in a fight. Geale for sure is a monster and these froch and kessler cats are highly overrated. That's until one day they step in the ring with ggg. Then they'll be superb opposition.

[Lords]

Ward has fought WAYYYYYYY more proven fighters...how skilled are GGG and Kovalev??? we do not know man they have faced 0 Elite fighters or even any A-class fighter...so why even ask this question..let them actually prove themselves 1st..they may or may not be the real thing..calm down..Kovalev has his chance in 2 weeks and hopefully GGG gets his next year

This right here. How you going to ask if Ward has fought anybody who is skilled/good as Kovalev/GGG when Kovalev/GGG havn't even faced any A class fighters yet to show how good they actually are? Ward's resume > Kovalev/GGG's resume together.