is Calzaghe HOF or potential future HOF

[phil28]

Again, questioning Jones' legacy, questioning his HoF status, or compairing him to Jones is ******. Outright ******.

I gave my opinion clearly to begin with, and said several times that Calzaghe's Hall of Fame chances hinge on what he does from here on in, not making excuses for what he did't do before.

It sounds like you don't disagree with that.

In my opinion, he needs to win a belt at Light Heavy to be sure HOF material. I respect the guy because I'm hearing Tarver's name a lot more than I'm hearing Woods' name, and Tarver is the linear champ at 175.

I'm also hearing rumours of an RJJ fight. If he's wanting to establish himself state-side with a tune up fight while Tarver fights BHop, fine. If he says it's a great accomplishment to beat RJJ, then he's wrong in my opinion.

[T to the T]

If Joe unifies Super Middle or/and goes on to conquer Light Heavy (Win's against Tarver, Woods, Johnson) then he should most definately be a hall of famer. He is unbeaten and held a world title for 8 years with no real trouble

[mECHsLAVE]

Bozo, you simply do not get it. Or either you get it and just don't want to "see" it, which is very likely.

What I am saying is that if you are going to criticize Calzaghe for not moving up in weight to challenge at 175, then you have to criticize Hopkins for the same thing- Hopkins is only challenging now because he has no other choice and was essentially run out the MW division by the first strong, skilled natural middleweight that he's fought in a decade. So Joe would now be a shoe-in for the HoF if he had called out Wright, Vargas, etc and stopped them, ala Hopkins with DLH and Trinidad?

If you're going to criticize Joe for tip-toeing around fighters (which I don't even see one glaring ommission from his resume other than Ottke), then you damn well better criticize Jones for it as well. Yes, Jones has a far better resume than Calzaghe and Jones has some incredible wins and performances. I am a Roy Jones fan, my friend. I was ringside for Tarver-Jones 3 yelling every second of every round for Roy. But when I speak about fighters' careers, I leave that at the door and try to be objective. You can't give one fighter a pass and criticize another fighter for the *exact same thing*.

And of course, you ignored most of what I said in my post because you had no answer for it, other than "Hopkins is great and so is Roy, blah, etc."

[Bozo_no no]

Bozo, you simply do not get it. Or either you get it and just don't want to "see" it, which is very likely.

What I am saying is that if you are going to criticize Calzaghe for not moving up in weight to challenge at 175, then you have to criticize Hopkins for the same thing- Hopkins is only challenging now because he has no other choice and was essentially run out the MW division by the first strong, skilled natural middleweight that he's fought in a decade. So Joe would now be a shoe-in for the HoF if he had called out Wright, Vargas, etc and stopped them, ala Hopkins with DLH and Trinidad?

If you're going to criticize Joe for tip-toeing around fighters (which I don't even see one glaring ommission from his resume other than Ottke), then you damn well better criticize Jones for it as well. Yes, Jones has a far better resume than Calzaghe and Jones has some incredible wins and performances. I am a Roy Jones fan, my friend. I was ringside for Tarver-Jones 3 yelling every second of every round for Roy. But when I speak about fighters' careers, I leave that at the door and try to be objective. You can't give one fighter a pass and criticize another fighter for the *exact same thing*.

And of course, you ignored most of what I said in my post because you had no answer for it, other than "Hopkins is great and so is Roy, blah, etc."

No, you don't get it. At all.

Hopkins stayed in the same division like Calzage did, excpet he fought everyone available, and unified all the major titles. Calzaghe did not do this.

You can talk all you want about Jones, but he moved up in weight and accomplished more than Joe can ever hope to.

In both cases, you're trying to take the focus off what Calzaghe didn't do by pointing out things about fighters no one would ever question the legacy of HoF status of.

Jones and Hopkins are locks for the Hall of Fame, with very strong legacies.

Joe is not a lock at all, does not have a strong legacy, and still has a lot to do to put himself in that postion.

[Dirt E Gomez]

What I am saying is that if you are going to criticize Calzaghe for not moving up in weight to challenge at 175, then you have to criticize Hopkins for the same thing- Hopkins is only challenging now because he has no other choice and was essentially run out the MW division by the first strong, skilled natural middleweight that he's fought in a decade. So Joe would now be a shoe-in for the HoF if he had called out Wright, Vargas, etc and stopped them, ala Hopkins with DLH and Trinidad?

No, you don't. Hopkins obtained a belt, and continued obtaining belts up until his eventual questionable defeats at the hands of Taylor. He unified, and while it took him a while to fight some larger names he does have Tito and Oscar on his resume. Also, Hopkins didn't just call them out, he called them out and beat them. Having the balls to say something and the balls to do them are 2 different things.

Jones might've tip-toed around fighters. He might've flat out dodged them, but that doesn't mean he's not HOF because of it.

The fact that you honestly don't get what Bozo is saying is rather frightening. It's not that Calzaghe didn't do one of these several things... he didn't do any of them. RJJ might not've unified or cleaned up divisions... but he did take on some easy HOF'ers himself and obtained belts in numerous divisions. Hopkins might not've moved up weight, but he did relatively clean up his division, unify, and fight some decent fighters who moved up to fight him. It's not a matter of not being able to critize RJJ or B-Hop because of this, but at least they did some of the things that will make them HOF members.

[Shanus]

It was Byrd's last ever amateur fight, Byrd had 300+ fights before that without ever being stopped. It came at an international meet where Calzaghe was representing Italy or Sardinia.

Thanks Juicy.

[mECHsLAVE]

No, you don't. Hopkins obtained a belt, and continued obtaining belts up until his eventual questionable defeats at the hands of Taylor. He unified, and while it took him a while to fight some larger names he does have Tito and Oscar on his resume. Also, Hopkins didn't just call them out, he called them out and beat them. Having the balls to say something and the balls to do them are 2 different things.

Jones might've tip-toed around fighters. He might've flat out dodged them, but that doesn't mean he's not HOF because of it.

The fact that you honestly don't get what Bozo is saying is rather frightening. It's not that Calzaghe didn't do one of these several things... he didn't do any of them. RJJ might not've unified or cleaned up divisions... but he did take on some easy HOF'ers himself and obtained belts in numerous divisions. Hopkins might not've moved up weight, but he did relatively clean up his division, unify, and fight some decent fighters who moved up to fight him. It's not a matter of not being able to critize RJJ or B-Hop because of this, but at least they did some of the things that will make them HOF members.

Hehe. Yes, junior. I see exactly what Bozo is saying and what you are saying. I just pointed out that the following criticisms...

1. Calzaghe has a few fighters missing from his resume.
2. Calzaghe never left his country.
3. Calzaghe never moved up in weight.
4. Calzaghe never became "undisputed" at his weight

...are criticims that must also be applied to the likes of Hopkins (mainly 2 and 3) and Jones (mainly 1, 2, and 4).

Yes, Hopkins and Jones have other career attributes which Calzaghe hasn't obtained yet- Hopkins became undisputed at his weight. And Roy moved up in weight to challenge for other belts. BUT Roy never unified at 160 or 168, and never moved up and challenged for the recognized, linear championships at 175 or HW. Neither ever left their country (Roy never left to fight the linear champ at 175). Neither always fought the toughest and best fighters available. So you see, they also have many of the same career flaws, according to the magnifying glass Bozo is now putting Calzaghe under. What I said was "No problem, just make sure and tilt that glass over Jones and Hopkins when we talk about their careers."

Understand? It's really not that hard.

[Crumble]

Joe is not a lock at all, does not have a strong legacy, and still has a lot to do to put himself in that postion[/I].

not really! he could beat Clinton Woods and retire and be HOF. Merely because it would be hard to argue why an undefeated two weight world champion wasnt HOF.

[Dirt E Gomez]

Hehe. Yes, junior. I see exactly what Bozo is saying and what you are saying. I just pointed out that the following criticisms...

1. Calzaghe has a few fighters missing from his resume.
2. Calzaghe never left his country.
3. Calzaghe never moved up in weight.
4. Calzaghe never became "undisputed" at his weight

...are criticims that must also be applied to the likes of Hopkins (mainly 2 and 3) and Jones (mainly 1, 2, and 4).

You clearly don't get it if this is your argument. Because, all 4 of those applies to Cazlaghe is why it's bad. I will the other fights, and have for their faults... buit they aren't as numerous as Cazlaghe's, which is why he isn't HOF compared to them. This isn't brain surgery... it's basic match. 4 > 2 or 3

[Stiv Rex]

not yet. he hasnt ducked anyone, but he hasnt done everything he could to get the big fights. is that frank warrens fault? i dont know, but he will have to take on a new weight class to make his mark. He can take tarver, but he'll get beat up to do it, tarver is bigger and stronger by a lot.
and before the lacy fight i would have said forget about hopkins and RJjr, but now that his name has some more marquee and $$$ attached, he might get those fights. calzaghe roy jones would be a good fight.