is Calzaghe HOF or potential future HOF

[Bozo_no no]

Oh, here we go, the great RJJ debate.

Of the titles RJJ won:

Middleweight: Won the vacant IBF belt versus BHop, when nobody had heard of Bhop.

Super middle: Won the IBF belt from Toney. A good win, but tainted slightly by Toney having to lose 48 pounds in 6 weeks before the fight.

Light Heavy: His WBC belt should never have gone to him, it belonged to a guy named Graciano Rocchegianni. His other belts were stripped from the ring champ DM. Paper champ and nothing more at light heavy.

Heavy: Beat John Ruiz, a guy tailor made for him to beat. Who was the man at heavy at the time? Lennox. Didn't see RJJ too eager to challenge him.

Neither guy has a particularly great resume as far as I'm concerned, but Joe still has time to add to his, whereas Roy should have hung the gloves up years ago.

This doesn't even deserve reading.

Any notion of compairing Calzaghe career or accomplishments to that of Roy Jones is an absolute joke. Jones beat other Hall of Fame locks, beat 16 current or former title holders, and won titles from 160 to Heavyweight.

Calzaghe has stayed in one division, didn't come close to cleaning it out, unified his first major title last weekend, has fought sub par opposition at best, and hasn't moved divisions to seek bigger fights.

You are getting outright ****** now.

[phil28]

This doesn't even deserve reading.

Any notion of compairing Calzaghe career or accomplishments to that of Roy Jones is an absolute joke. Jones beat other Hall of Fame locks, beat 16 current or former title holders, and won titles from 160 to Heavyweight.

Calzaghe has stayed in one division, didn't come close to cleaning it out, unified his first major title last weekend, has fought sub par opposition at best, and hasn't moved divisions to seek bigger fights.

You are getting outright ****** now.

No, I'm being objective, you're not.

You say Calzaghe didn't clean out his division. Fair enough, he didn't.

Which division did Roy 'clean out'?

For the record, RJJ is one of the most talented fighters I've ever seen, but his resume is missing a whole lot of fighters at every weight he fought at.

[Bozo_no no]

No, I'm being objective, you're not.

You say Calzaghe didn't clean out his division. Fair enough, he didn't.

Which division did Roy 'clean out'?

For the record, RJJ is one of the most talented fighters I've ever seen, but his resume is missing a whole lot of fighters at every weight he fought at.

Roy moved up in weight tenfold, and beat better opposition overall.

If you want to use Calzaghe's staying at 168 as a positive accomplishment, it should encoumpass him cleaning it out or unifying titles, something he didn't do.

The very notion of comparing him or his career to that of Jones' is outright ******.

If Calzahe had moved up and won a title in another division, this ill fated argument you're trying to present now might have a slight shred of credibility.

Since he didn't, and remained at 168 fighting sub par opposition, your notion just looks silly.

[hollister]

Well, dude, you obviously hate the guy with a passion for whatever reason. That is plain to see.

You gotta admit, he's calmed way the **** down from the night Joe beat Jeff lol
He makes a big deal about Jeff having only 21 fights, but how many picked Joe to win?
That alone should speak volumes about how the fight was looked at.

[phil28]

Roy moved up in weight tenfold, and beat better opposition overall.

If you want to use Calzaghe's staying at 168 as a positive accomplishment, it should encoumpass him cleaning it out or unifying titles, something he didn't do.

The very notion of comparing him or his career to that of Jones' is outright ******.

If Calzahe had moved up and won a title in another division, this ill fated argument you're trying to present now might have a slight shred of credibility.

Since he didn't, and remained at 168 fighting sub par opposition, your notion just looks silly.

Well, your first sentence is utter bollocks considering there aren't 10 weight divisions above middleweight. As for Roy beating better opposition overall, maybe you're right, but Roy is done and Joe still has a few years left.

If looking at an argument objectively is silly, then I guess I'm guilty as charged. The fact that you picked Lacy to dominate Joe, voted Lacy as a force in the super middle division, and have tried to discredit Joe's win ever since the fight shows your agenda here.

[mECHsLAVE]

Roy moved up in weight tenfold, and beat better opposition overall.

If you want to use Calzaghe's staying at 168 as a positive accomplishment, it should encoumpass him cleaning it out or unifying titles, something he didn't do.

The very notion of comparing him or his career to that of Jones' is outright ******.

If Calzahe had moved up and won a title in another division, this ill fated argument you're trying to present now might have a slight shred of credibility.

Since he didn't, and remained at 168 fighting sub par opposition, your notion just looks silly.

Ok, the problem you are getting into without realizing it, is that you are painting yourself into a corner to either majorly criticize Jones or Hopkins.

1. You are nitpicking about the guys at 168 that Joe didn't fight, who are relative nobodys, let's face it. Roy has a much stronger list of fighters missing from his resume, mainly the linear champ at 175 who he refused to face... why? Because he wouldn't leave his country... (segue)...


2. You are criticizing him for not leaving his country (when in fact he has, going into the proverbial Lion's Den of Germany) and yet Roy of course has never left his country to fight. Neither has Hopkins. In fact, it's a ****** argument anyway, because the best SMW's have been in Europe not the US. So who exactly did he avoid fighting by not coming to the US? LOL

3. You are criticizing him for not moving up in weight to challenge for other titles. Yet I don't hear you riding Hopkins about not moving up, do I? You consider it a great accomplishment of RJJ to move up in weight, well that's easy when you tip-toe into divisions and avoid the linear champs as Roy did. Roy won a title at 160, but defened it only once and never unified. Roy won a title at 168, but never unified. (You keep criticizing Joe for "never unifying"). Roy never won the definitive linear championship at 175 or HW, either. He just picked fighters he thought he could beat.

No, nobody is saying Joe is a greater fighter or has a better resume than RJJ. You are TOTALLY missing the point. The point is that I am asking if you apply the same criticisms to RJJ and Hopkins that you do to Joe. And so far, you've done well to dodge that. Does Hopkins lose credibility for not moving up to challenge for other titles? Does Roy lose credibility for, while moving up, tip-toeing around the champs and the toughest fights?

If so, fine. You are just a tough boxing fan to please.

If not, then you are using a double-standard and aren't using the same criteria to criticize different fighters, because you simply like one and don't like another.

[Bozo_no no]

Well, your first sentence is utter bollocks considering there aren't 10 weight divisions above middleweight.

Weak, you know exactly what I mean, and have no response, because you know it was ****** to ever begin to make such a compairison.

As for Roy beating better opposition overall, maybe you're right, but Roy is done and Joe still has a few years left.

Maybe? LOL

The fact that you picked Lacy to dominate Joe, voted Lacy as a force in the super middle division, and have tried to discredit Joe's win ever since the fight shows your agenda here.

Back to that? What does that one win have to do with this discussion? A lot of people thought Lacy would win. When I voted Lacy is a force, it was relative to him being a prospect, not a pound for pound fighter. I would have voted that Kermit Cintron was looking like a force before the Margarito fight.

The 1st thing I did after the Lacy fight was give Joe credit and admit I got the pick wrong.

That doesn't change the fact he'd done very little before that, that he's not a lock for the Hall of Fame at this point at all, or that your Jones Calzaghe compairison was ******.

[Bozo_no no]

Ok, the problem you are getting into without realizing it, is that you are painting yourself into a corner to either majorly criticize Jones or Hopkins.

1. You are nitpicking about the guys at 168 that Joe didn't fight, who are relative nobodys, let's face it. Roy has a much stronger list of fighters missing from his resume, mainly the linear champ at 175 who he refused to face... why? Because he wouldn't leave his country... (segue)...


2. You are criticizing him for not leaving his country (when in fact he has, going into the proverbial Lion's Den of Germany) and yet Roy of course has never left his country to fight. Neither has Hopkins. In fact, it's a ****** argument anyway, because the best SMW's have been in Europe not the US. So who exactly did he avoid fighting by not coming to the US? LOL

3. You are criticizing him for not moving up in weight to challenge for other titles. Yet I don't hear you riding Hopkins about not moving up, do I? You consider it a great accomplishment of RJJ to move up in weight, well that's easy when you tip-toe into divisions and avoid the linear champs as Roy did. Roy won a title at 160, but defened it only once and never unified. Roy won a title at 168, but never unified. (You keep criticizing Joe for "never unifying"). Roy never won the definitive linear championship at 175 or HW, either. He just picked fighters he thought he could beat.

No, nobody is saying Joe is a greater fighter or has a better resume than RJJ. You are TOTALLY missing the point. The point is that I am asking if you apply the same criticisms to RJJ and Hopkins that you do to Joe. And so far, you've done well to dodge that. Does Hopkins lose credibility for not moving up to challenge for other titles? Does Roy lose credibility for, while moving up, tip-toeing around the champs and the toughest fights?

If so, fine. You are just a tough boxing fan to please.

If not, then you are using a double-standard and aren't using the same criteria to criticize different fighters, because you simply like one and don't like another.

All you ever do is cry, and bring up non sense. You don't like that I disagree with you, and long winded crap like this reflects that.

Is anyone dis*****g Jones or Hopkins' legacy or suggesting they won't get into the Hall of Fame?

No.

Hopkins will becuase he unified his division, cleaned it out, and knocked out Hall of Fame fighters. Joe has done none of that.

Compairing Jones' career and legacy to that of Calzaghe's isn't even worth adressing it's so ******.

Crying about double standards between the three is useless, because there's no dis*****g Jones' and Hopkins' legacy.

There IS however, room to question Joe's.

This win agaisnt Lacy, a fighter with 21 wins, is the biggest accomplishment of his career. He's been in one weight class his whole carrer, hasn't unified or cleaned it out, doesn't have significant HoF noteworthy wins, and hasn't moved up.

This thread is about him, and his chances at the hall.

Right now, it's silm.

He has the potential to change that, but it's going to take stepping it up from what he's done in the past.

[phil28]

Weak, you know exactly what I mean, and have no response, because you know it was ****** to ever begin to make such a compairison.



Maybe? LOL



Back to that? What does that one win have to do with this discussion? A lot of people thought Lacy would win. When I voted Lacy is a force, it was relative to him being a prospect, not a pound for pound fighter. I would have voted that Kermit Cintron was looking like a force before the Margarito fight.

The 1st thing I did after the Lacy fight was give Joe credit and admit I got the pick wrong.

That doesn't change the fact he'd done very little before that, that he's not a lock for the Hall of Fame at this point at all, or that your Jones Calzaghe compairison was ******.

Yes, maybe.

Looking through Roy's resume, the best guy he beat was Toney. I'll say it was a fine win, even if Toney did have weight issues leading up to the fight.

I see BHop on there, but he was unheard of when Roy fought him. I also see Mike McCallum there, but he was 40 years old when Roy fought him. I'm looking for the other big names on his record, you know, like Mike Nunn, Nigel Benn, DM, etc, etc. Guess what, I may as well look forever because they're not there.

As far as this argument goes, I think Mechslave summed it up pretty well above. I guess you're a hard boxing fan to please. Joe's obviously not one of your favourite fighters, but you seem to go out of your way to discredit the guy.

The title of the thread is 'is Calzaghe HOF or potential future HOF'. My answer would be potential future HOF. That's my opinion, which in your opinion may be ******, but I don't care.

Agree to disagree.

[Bozo_no no]

Yes, maybe.

Looking through Roy's resume, the best guy he beat was Toney. I'll say it was a fine win, even if Toney did have weight issues leading up to the fight.

I see BHop on there, but he was unheard of when Roy fought him. I also see Mike McCallum there, but he was 40 years old when Roy fought him. I'm looking for the other big names on his record, you know, like Mike Nunn, Nigel Benn, DM, etc, etc. Guess what, I may as well look forever because they're not there.

As far as this argument goes, I think Mechslave summed it up pretty well above. I guess you're a hard boxing fan to please. Joe's obviously not one of your favourite fighters, but you seem to go out of your way to discredit the guy.

The title of the thread is 'is Calzaghe HOF or potential future HOF'. My answer would be potential future HOF. That's my opinion, which in your opinion may be ******, but I don't care.

Agree to disagree.

Again, questioning Jones' legacy, questioning his HoF status, or compairing him to Joe is ******. Outright ******.

I gave my opinion clearly to begin with, and said several times that Calzaghe's Hall of Fame chances hinge on what he does from here on in, not making excuses for what he did't do before.

It sounds like you don't disagree with that.