Greatest Heavyweights since Ali

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  • soul_survivor
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    #1

    Greatest Heavyweights since Ali

    I know the heavies get talked about a lot here, especially with Wlad and Vitali and their lack of true top level opposition but I was just thinking, who is the greatest heavyweight since GOAT Muhammad Ali? Is it Holmes? Many would have that as the consensus numero uno, but what about Holmes? Lewis? Tyson? Wlad himself? What about guys like Michael Spinks or Chris Byrd?

    Which is why I decided to make a top 20 list of the greatest heavyweights post the Ali era, which in my opinion ended in 1978 with his original retirement. I'll be writing a little synopsis for the top 10 guys. So here we go:

    1. Evander Holyfield
    No. of Successful Title Defenses: 7
    With wins over Tyson (2x), Rid**** Bowe, Larry Holmes, George Foreman, James Douglas, Michael Moorer...Holyfield may just have the most complete resume of any heavyweight since Ali and I haven't even included names like Lennox Lewis (losses) or Mercer or Cooper. Evander Holyfield was an undersized heavyweight at times too but fought on with immense heart, a great chin and underrated boxing skill. I can't actually think of ranking anyone else higher.

    2. Larry Holmes

    No. of Successful Title Defenses: 20
    Many people would have Larry Holmes ranked number one in the post-Ali era and his lengthy title reign is definitely exceptional but the quality of opposition was not always the same. For every Ernie Shavers there are countless Randall Cobbs and Gerry Cooneys. Of course, the relative mediocrity of the heavyweight division in the early 1980s is not his fault and he did, to his credit, beat every worthy challenger put in front of him. Add to that exceptional skills, a great jab, good defense and underrated offense and what we have is one of the best all round boxers in the division's history.No shame in coming a very close second.

    3. Lennox Lewis
    No. of Successful Title Defenses: 13
    Lennox Lewis participated in one of the most competitive heavyweight eras of all time but sadly, due to no fault of his own, the big fights came for him far too late. His bouts against the great Holyfield and Tyson came when both men were in the twilight of their careers. Could both fights have happened earlier? Well the Tyson match up most definitely but boxing politics got in the way. Can those wins be held up as great wins? I personally do not think so. Tyson was all but shot and Holyfield was on his last legs.
    Lewis did beat both guys so it accounts for something. Lewis' two major losses were by brutal KO against opponents who were, in all honesty, just short of truly world class. But he avenged those losses and managed to hold wins over top challengers such as Andrew Golota, Tommy Morrison and Razor Ruddock. Add to that the exceptional ability, especially his way of controlling the pace of the fight and we have a great heavyweight.

    4. Mike Tyson

    No. of Successful Title Defenses: 10
    Mike Tyson, aged 21, may have been the most complete offensive fighter in the history of this sport. His speed, power, head movement, footwork, defense...they were exceptional. Never before had a fighter, heavyweight or otherwise, so thoroughly dominated and terrified an entire division. He unified the titles and brought mainstream attention back to boxing. Sadly his demons, some physical, some psychological, got the better of him and in the years following the loss to Douglas, he was never the same again.
    Yes there were moments of brilliance against the likes of Ruddock and Bruno but the old spark was gone. He could no longer compete at the highest level and that slow decline throughout the late 90s, following his beat down at the hands of Holyfield have severely affected his legacy. He just never managed to maintain that same level of excellence against the absolute best of his era. However, there is no denying his place among the elite.

    5. Wladimir Klitschko
    No. of Successful Title Defenses: 21

    The greatest heavyweight of the 21st century but also one of the most polarising champions ever. There is no denying his craft, his size and his power. His jab is a great defensive tool and his right hand is explosive, but all too often his fights have dragged out into borefests, with excessive amounts of clinching, pushing and wrestling. Add to that a limited resume, again, like Holmes, it's not Wlad's fault. As I already mentioned, there is no denying Wlad's in ring intelligence, he knows how to control distance, how to work his opponents into better positions and when to throw the power shot. Wlad just lacks that true great rival that Holyfield and Tyson had. He also lacks a resume with depth. But his top 5 position should not be denied.

    6. Vitali Klitschko

    No. of Successful Title Defenses: 13

    Vitali, in Wlad's own words, "is the fighter" and you can see, from a lot of his fights, especially those in his earlier years, that Vitali likes to hurt his opponents. With his immense size and power, Vitali was THE dominant force in a post Lewis world. Yes Wld probably deserves more plaudits for his longevity, his better all round game and his superior list of opponents but Vitali was like a machine. Rarely hurt, barring encounters with Lewis (in itself a war which Vitali was winning) and Chris Byrd, Vitali loved to come forward. His pace slowed down a lot in the latter years and he never looked as convincing again as he did on those nights against Sanders, Williams and Peter.

    7. Rid**** Bowe

    No. of Successful Title Defenses: 3

    Oh what could have been...Bowe had all the talent in the world. He was fast for a big man, exceptional well schooled and could fight better on the inside than most smaller fighters. His trilogy with Holyfield was probably the defining contest of the 1990s but outside of that what is there to say about Big Daddy? I personally don't think there's much. His "wins" over Gollota are bizarre and his less than stellar performances, littered throughout his time in the pro ranks are beguiling, how could someone with all that talent get so bad, so quick? Bowe could have been an all time great.

    8. Michael Spinks
    No. of Successful Title Defenses: 3

    The enduring memory of Spinks for many fans, is his 1 round destruction at the hands of a young Mike Tyson. However, we should not forget that he was outweighed by Larry Holmes by 22lbs yet managed to beat him twice. Both fights may be viewed as controversial and they were definitely close but there is no denying the tenacity with which he fought. There was also skill and heart and everything else needed to become champion. There is more to Spinks than just Tyson.

    9. George Foreman

    No. of Successful Title Defenses: 3

    Did anyone really believe that George Foreman, then 45 years of age, would be able to win the lineal heavyweight championship? Yet he did it, in a triumph of will, dedication and power. That one punch managed to shake up the heavyweight division for a short while. His reign was short lived and low on quality but his run, since his second coming could be viewed as impressive, wins over Moorer, Cooney and Cooper are nothing to scoff at.

    10. Michael Moorer

    No. of Successful Title Defenses: 2

    Much like Spinks, Moorer was a former lightheavyweight champion who won the heavyweight crown but sadly, things didn't get better than that night against Holyfield. He was stopped by Foreman in his next fight and although he would manage to win the IBF crown, he was never the same again. Some say it was stubbornness, laziness, a lack of will but there is no denying he had the tools to be better than what he became. Moorer could easily have placed higher on the list.

    11. John Ruiz
    12. Chris Byrd
    13. Tim Witherspoon
    14. Donovan Ruddock
    15. David Tua
    16. Frank Bruno
    17. Hasim Rahman
    18. David Haye
    19. Alexander Povetkin
    20. Ike Ibeabuchi
  • Simurgh
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    #2
    Good list.

    IMO guys that are bit too high : Tyson, Bowe, Vitali, Ruiz, Evander

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    • LacedUp
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      #3
      I think George Foreman's second career eclipsed someone like Michael Spink's heavyweight career by miles.

      I don't know about the rest, I feel they are probably the correct people on the list, but placement wise, I would have Larry Holmes #1 probably.

      But I agree with your top 3, possibly top 4.

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      • soul_survivor
        LOL @ Ali-Holmes
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        #4
        Originally posted by LacedUp
        I think George Foreman's second career eclipsed someone like Michael Spink's heavyweight career by miles.

        I don't know about the rest, I feel they are probably the correct people on the list, but placement wise, I would have Larry Holmes #1 probably.

        But I agree with your top 3, possibly top 4.
        Spinks beat the best heavy of his generation twice, Foreman never managed that

        Originally posted by Simurgh
        Good list.

        IMO guys that are bit too high : Tyson, Bowe, Vitali, Ruiz, Evander
        You wouldn't place Tyson in a top post Ali? Or Vitali in top 10? Who would you have above them?

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        • IronDanHamza
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          #5
          Very solid list.

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          • LacedUp
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            #6
            Originally posted by soul_survivor
            Spinks beat the best heavy of his generation twice, Foreman never managed that

            You wouldn't place Tyson in a top post Ali? Or Vitali in top 10? Who would you have above them?
            Well 'beat' and 'beat'. On paper he beat him yeah. A very seasoned and getting on Holmes. Leon Spinks also beat Ali, I don't see him on the list?

            Foreman beat the odds much more than Spinks, he had a very good fight with Holyfield and beat a young, undefeated heavyweight who was 5-1 on, and Foreman was 45 years old.

            I feel like his 40 fight career eclipsed Spinks 4-5 heavyweight career.

            I think it's a very solid list, and that would probably be my only objection.

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            • Weltschmerz
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              #7
              Wladimir is the greatest heavy of all time.

              Think about it: His jab, footwork, defense and offense are so unbelievably good that he completely transformed boxing to a higher level because NOT ONE of the usual strategies or boxing styles works against him.

              He proved uppercuts, combos, feinting, swarming etc to be near-worthless (in the case of his opponents) and unnecessary (in the case of himself). Thus by his perfect minimalistic-seeming technique he actually shows how bad previous generations of boxers were who could win with such techniques like feinting and combos.

              Nobody transformed boxing as much as Wladimir. He is the blueprint for what strategies work (in his case) and don't work (in his opponents' case).
              Last edited by Weltschmerz; 09-20-2014, 12:40 PM.

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              • Weltschmerz
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                #8
                Wladimir is also the hardest puncher of all time.

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                • soul_survivor
                  LOL @ Ali-Holmes
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by LacedUp
                  Well 'beat' and 'beat'. On paper he beat him yeah. A very seasoned and getting on Holmes. Leon Spinks also beat Ali, I don't see him on the list?

                  Foreman beat the odds much more than Spinks, he had a very good fight with Holyfield and beat a young, undefeated heavyweight who was 5-1 on, and Foreman was 45 years old.

                  I feel like his 40 fight career eclipsed Spinks 4-5 heavyweight career.

                  I think it's a very solid list, and that would probably be my only objection.
                  Leon, after that rematch with Ali didn't do much and looked mediocre at best.

                  I do admit that Holmes was probably nearing the end...then again, post-Tyson he had a pretty decent career himself and took a prime, young HOly the distance. What we have to factor in, is, although both fights were close, Mike was moving up some 30lb in weight and fighting THE MAN at heavyweight and he managed to outpoint him twice and then went on to stop a man who outweighed him by some 40lb.

                  Personally I wouldn't nit pick too much if you were to rank Foreman higher, just my reason for having Mike higher.

                  Originally posted by -Weltschmerz-
                  Wladimir is also the hardest puncher of all time.
                  That argument you make about him being the GOAT is ridiculous but this one may hold some weight. Wlad probably hits as hard as anyone in the division's history.

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                  • LacedUp
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by soul_survivor
                    Leon, after that rematch with Ali didn't do much and looked mediocre at best.

                    I do admit that Holmes was probably nearing the end...then again, post-Tyson he had a pretty decent career himself and took a prime, young HOly the distance. What we have to factor in, is, although both fights were close, Mike was moving up some 30lb in weight and fighting THE MAN at heavyweight and he managed to outpoint him twice and then went on to stop a man who outweighed him by some 40lb.

                    Personally I wouldn't nit pick too much if you were to rank Foreman higher, just my reason for having Mike higher.
                    I can definitely see your reasoning, but i think coupled with the fact that Holmes was nearing his end, despite him later making a semi-successful comeback I guess, and him only having a few fights and other than Holmes only beat Cooney, who never really wasn't that good, would put Foreman higher. I would even have to question whether I'd put Spinks in the top 10 actually - but I can definitely see your reasnoning. I think someone like Ruiz for example, as crap and boring as he was, actually has an equal and/or better resume at heavyweight than spinks + he has that many more fights. All in all, I don't really consider Spinks a great heavyweight at all - but of course was an absolutely tremendous light heavyweight.

                    I would maybe think about having Bowe above Vitali Klitschko too, simply because of his wins over a prime Holyfield.

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