who is the number 1 super middleweight in the word-FROCH OR WARD

[LacedUp]

I didn't say he has the best resume overall, I said he has the best wins. By that I mean his clear victories over Froch and non injury-riddled Kessler, the version who beat Froch one fight later, are superior to anything Froch has done.

The Kessler Froch fought both times would smacked the beshizzle out of the Kessler that was in Oakland in 2009 for sure.

[The Big Dunn]

i remeber the super 6, just about anyway as i was 3 years ago. Ward never fought out of the USA unlike every single other competitor, should have been disqualified, but most importantly taking all that aside, it showed he was the best in 2011...

He not even got a fight scheduled for early 2015 and his 2 ****ty fights hes had since the super 6 were against two unoffical unraked fights at 168.

Dawson got koed by stevenson the next fight, and the fight after couldnt mak the weight, rodriguez weight 170 and so it couldnt even be a title fight...


Froch has beaten higher ranked, and more of the higher ranked opponents,and in more spectacular fashion...and you know full well its logical to aset froch the number 1 suoer middle weight...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkUcGuQ_MwA

here you are mate, a hall of famer chris byrd thinks froch is number 1 super middleweight...but some southern wet blanket thinks ward is...i know who im going with...

Now **** off

Froch beat Bute in England. Does it count? Or can we limit it's value since it wasn't on the road?

[slimshandy69]

Ward outclassed Kessler in nearly every round and hardly got touched, and that was true before Kessler became seriously marked up. Kessler also didn't change the way he seemed to be fighting, so I'm doubtful about whether the headbutts were the major factor many claim that are.

Froch later beat Kessler, but that was after Kessler was seriously struggling with injuries which forced him to withdraw from the Super Six. He had also been hurt and dropped by Allen Green shortly before rematching Froch and was showing signs of slowing, hardly being the fighter he was when he fairly beat Froch, which as I've mentioned came immediately after he lost widely to Ward.

Froch may have beaten Abraham more convincingly than Ward did, but it's a fairly close call as both thoroughly dominated him. It's not comparable to Ward outclassing Kessler just before Kessler beat Froch.

I think it's nonsensical to say the Dawson and Rodriguez fights don't count, rather than including them but accounting for the particulars of each bout. Ward was still a SMW, Dawson made the limit, and Rodriguez is a career SMW who was only slightly over the limit. I certainly see the argument for Dawson being off form, but I don't see much evidence that Rodriguez was a different fighter than he usually is--very comparable to Groves and superior to Yusaf Mack.

And of course, Ward clearly beat Froch.

ward headbutted kessler to death, tis a horrible fight to watch and i feel for kessler who should have been awared the win or a no contest at minimum for that shocking refereeing.

Sergey Kovalev would obliterate froch, ill admit that, but FROCH IS RANKED HIGHER AT SUPER MIDDLE WEIGHT. the is fact. Doesnt mean kovalev is less of a fighter, it just means hes been doing his thing at his weigt class.

As for rodriguez, it was his biggest fight of his career and he weight a massive 2 pounds over. Im sorry that makes the fight irrlevant at 168. I am on about rankings at 168, not head to head, not triangle theories, not whether froch could beat dawson. but 168.

The fact are froch has beaten since his close decision lss IN AMERICA(Wards never left oakland barely) to andre ward, far better ranked and high activity than ward. Therefore he should be ranked above ward.

they are the facts...2011 was 2011, demand and suplly froch is schooling ward for money as well

[Levity]

The Kessler Froch fought both times would smacked the beshizzle out of the Kessler that was in Oakland in 2009 for sure.

I doubt it. Kessler fought Froch shortly after he faced Ward and he fairly beat him; he didn't get outclassed and arguably lose every round, and he didn't bring anything that he didn't also show against Ward.

The Kessler who rematched Froch, on the other hand, had been seriously struggling with injuries and couldn't even stay on his feet against Allan Green shortly before the rematch.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

i remeber the super 6, just about anyway as i was 3 years ago. Ward never fought out of the USA unlike every single other competitor, should have been disqualified, but most importantly taking all that aside, it showed he was the best in 2011...

He not even got a fight scheduled for early 2015 and his 2 ****ty fights hes had since the super 6 were against two unoffical unraked fights at 168.

Dawson got koed by stevenson the next fight, and the fight after couldnt mak the weight, rodriguez weight 170 and so it couldnt even be a title fight...


Froch has beaten higher ranked, and more of the higher ranked opponents,and in more spectacular fashion...and you know full well its logical to aset froch the number 1 suoer middle weight...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkUcGuQ_MwA

here you are mate, a hall of famer chris byrd thinks froch is number 1 super middleweight...but some southern wet blanket thinks ward is...i know who im going with...

Now **** off

Chris Byrd? Lol...how hard did you have to search to find one credible source that agrees with your spasticated ass?

What about the majority of people who know that Andre Ward is the best super middleweight in the world?

[slimshandy69]

Froch beat Bute in England. Does it count? Or can we limit it's value since it wasn't on the road?

froch beat Taylor and koed him in hi own back yard, he beat hopkins twice and jeff lacey.

So froch has to be equal or higher than calzaghe and hopkins...as froch has never lost to taylor....

See, it gets ******.

Fats are Andre ward is basically irrelevant, taking aside any "head to head" matches. We ar talking ranking. RANKINGS are year on year, relevant consistancy and quality of performance.

Froch schools andre ward in the last 2 and a half years on all of those things..be honest...he really does...

[LacedUp]

I doubt it. Kessler fought Froch shortly after he faced Ward and he fairly beat him; he didn't get outclassed and arguably lose every round, and he didn't bring anything that he didn't also show against Ward.

The Kessler who rematched Froch, on the other hand, had been seriously struggling with injuries and couldn't even stay on his feet against Allan Green shortly before the rematch.

It doesn't matter. It's a myth in boxing that you're automatically worse if you fight someone a year or two later.

I've asked Kessler myself, and he said he felt 5 times the fighter against Froch in 2010 than he did against Ward in 2009. There were a lot of things that went wrong for Kessler in the build up to the fight.

You mean the Allan Green who almost swallowed his tongue after Kessler rendered him completely unconscious with one left hook?

[R_Walken]

Froch is the #1 $ man in the div. Wards #1 talent in the div

[Levity]

ward headbutted kessler to death, tis a horrible fight to watch and i feel for kessler who should have been awared the win or a no contest at minimum for that shocking refereeing.

Sergey Kovalev would obliterate froch, ill admit that, but FROCH IS RANKED HIGHER AT SUPER MIDDLE WEIGHT. the is fact. Doesnt mean kovalev is less of a fighter, it just means hes been doing his thing at his weigt class.

As for rodriguez, it was his biggest fight of his career and he weight a massive 2 pounds over. Im sorry that makes the fight irrlevant at 168. I am on about rankings at 168, not head to head, not triangle theories, not whether froch could beat dawson. but 168.

The fact are froch has beaten since his close decision lss IN AMERICA(Wards never left oakland barely) to andre ward, far better ranked and high activity than ward. Therefore he should be ranked above ward.

they are the facts...2011 was 2011, demand and suplly froch is schooling ward for money as well

I don't think the headbutts had much to do with Ward's victory over Froch and I believe the Rodriguez bout should be considered when ranking Ward, as I've said in previous posts. You're not adding anything to your arguments, so you can check my earlier posts to see my response.

Froch-Ward was close on two cards only, both of which reflected poor judging as it was fairly clear to a keen observer that Ward won convincingly, as he outboxed, outlanded, and even outfight Froch in a sizebale majority of rounds. If you go simply by official cards Canelo-Mayweather arguably a closer fight, as was Shumenov-Hopkins.

I agree that recent results should be considered when ranking fighters, but I don't see how Froch's recent results are enough to overcome what Ward has generally accomplished over the past 5 years. Ward clearly beat Froch, he clearly beat a guy who shortly after beat Froch, and overall his resume is of a similar quality. Froch has accomplished more recently, but of his last five bouts one was a competitive bout with a shopworn Kessler, already beaten easily by Ward when he was fresher; one was over Yusaf Mack, who had no place fighting Froch; and two were over someone no more proven than Rodriguez, who Ward beat within the past year.

As for who is a bigger draw, it's Froch no question, but that's irrelevant to who should be ranked higher.

[The Big Dunn]

froch beat Taylor and koed him in hi own back yard, he beat hopkins twice and jeff lacey.

So froch has to be equal or higher than calzaghe and hopkins...as froch has never lost to taylor....

See, it gets ******.

Fats are Andre ward is basically irrelevant, taking aside any "head to head" matches. We ar talking ranking. RANKINGS are year on year, relevant consistancy and quality of performance.

Froch schools andre ward in the last 2 and a half years on all of those things..be honest...he really does...

Froch schools ward everywhere except one place-in the ring. If that's the only way you can get Carl to #1 since he couldn't beat ward-so be it.

#1 in your heart #2 everywhere else.