Honestly, Muguel Cotto

[New England]

*sniff*

cotto es el campion mundial doe.

[Barry Halls]

As much as i love Cotto (and i do think he's much better today than many of his critics give him credit for) i think we have to admit that his win over Martinez is as meaningful as Floyds win over Mosley.

With that said, it is not fair to judge Cotto compared to middleweights. He's a relatively small 154, and i credit him for moving up to 160 and taking the shot.
Would he beat GGG? No, absolutely not. But i doubt anyone at 154 (including Floyd) would.

Cotto will be a clearcut HOF fighter and he has had a very good career.

[Hyper Knuckles]

He is the LINEAL CHAMP. You can make an argument for him not being the best Middleweight, but his distinction of beating the man who beat the man automatically places him above the rest of the competition.

[BennyST]

And yet...what was your pre-fight prediction?

Pre fight prediction doesn't actually change what a fighter can do in fight night. It's just a prediction based on what Martinez could have done had he been healthy and at his best. Predictions are based on things past. In history, not what happens in the future or present.

There was always the caveat that 'Martinez wins, if he's still fighting well'. He came in, and what people suspected from the Murray fight, that he was on a very fast decline, was clearly true.

Just having a prediction based on previous things doesn't mean anything when a fighter comes in and is clearly got something wrong with him. It was still a great win, but anyone that thinks Martinez didn't have issues with his age, inactivity, injuries and shot reflexes is daft and thinks a prediction before the fight is the only truth in boxing.

People also predicted Oscar would beat Pac. Just because that was predicted by a lot of people, does that mean Oscar wasn't actually old, wasn't actually shot, wasn't actually brutally weight drained, wasn't a shell zombie of his former self? Was he, like he once was and that people thought could possibly happen, still fast, active, sharp with a great jab? Or was he a slow, lumbering, uncoordinated mess that couldn't have beaten a fish?

Predictions happen before the fight. Which means, people base their opinions on stuff that has no basis in current fact. They go by things that happened in the past. That was the reason people said Martinez should win, if he's healthy, if his inactivity isn't a factor, if ring rust doesn't show up, if his age doesn't catch up with him, if his knees hold out, if his reflexes are still there and if the Murray fight was just a one off rather than a clear sign of all of these things being true.

That's why predictions are predictions. Because no one actually knows if they are true or not until they happen. Cotto fought great, deserves his number 1 ranking, lineal middleweight title (I find it funny that Cottos only true world championship title is at 160, not 140, 147 or 154) and great praise, plus a HOF spot IMO, but Martinez was clearly done. His legs literally collapsed under him with the first grazing shot that landed, he had no coordination and no recovery at all, and couldn't get his legs back under him for the rest of the fight, along with being hurt by shots that previously wouldn't have even budged him an inch. That's a shot fighter.

[JmH Reborn]

Pre fight prediction doesn't actually change what a fighter can do in fight night. It's just a prediction based on what Martinez could have done had he been healthy and at his best. Predictions are based on things past. In history, not what happens in the future or present.

There was always the caveat that 'Martinez wins, if he's still fighting well'. He came in, and what people suspected from the Murray fight, that he was on a very fast decline, was clearly true.

Just having a prediction based on previous things doesn't mean anything when a fighter comes in and is clearly got something wrong with him. It was still a great win, but anyone that thinks Martinez didn't have issues with his age, inactivity, injuries and shot reflexes is daft and thinks a prediction before the fight is the only truth in boxing.

People also predicted Oscar would beat Pac. Just because that was predicted by a lot of people, does that mean Oscar wasn't actually old, wasn't actually shot, wasn't actually brutally weight drained, wasn't a shell zombie of his former self? Was he, like he once was and that people thought could possibly happen, still fast, active, sharp with a great jab? Or was he a slow, lumbering, uncoordinated mess that couldn't have beaten a fish?

Predictions happen before the fight. Which means, people base their opinions on stuff that has no basis in current fact. They go by things that happened in the past. That was the reason people said Martinez should win, if he's healthy, if his inactivity isn't a factor, if ring rust doesn't show up, if his age doesn't catch up with him, if his knees hold out, if his reflexes are still there and if the Murray fight was just a one off rather than a clear sign of all of these things being true.

That's why predictions are predictions. Because no one actually knows if they are true or not until they happen. Cotto fought great, deserves his number 1 ranking, lineal middleweight title (I find it funny that Cottos only true world championship title is at 160, not 140, 147 or 154) and great praise, plus a HOF spot IMO, but Martinez was clearly done. His legs literally collapsed under him with the first grazing shot that landed, he had no coordination and no recovery at all, and couldn't get his legs back under him for the rest of the fight, along with being hurt by shots that previously wouldn't have even budged him an inch. That's a shot fighter.

I was inquiring if he was one of those that said a 50% Sergio is still to big, to fast and too strong for Cotto. The were good, solid predictions that had merit on both sides, then those that were extremes.

Them when Cotto destroys him, it's, "well he wasn't 50% Sergio, he was 45% Sergio, so it was an invalid win."

[El Angel]

Some of Cotto's fans are fans of Sergio's too oddly enough. Wanting him to come back and end his career on a better note doesn't necessarily mean it's benefit Cotto's career when it's looked back on.

Come on to boxing forum and cheering on your favorite fighter? You suck Cotto fans.

[Larry the boss]

He is the lineal champ...he took a huge risk and cashed out

[E. O. Wilson]

People actually take that Martinez win seriously?

[ELPacman]

I don't think he's the best but you gotta give Cotto all the credit in the world. Who the hell would of thought he was still be relevant after his losses to Pac and Fraud? I thought Cotto was done when he was fighting the likes of Mayorga.
So many times Cotto has come back to get chances and shots and well, he did it again. Only this time he looked sensational destroying the champion when just about nobody gave him a shot to do so.
It's basically climbing back from the furthest end of the boxing world where you should practically be on your way out the door to coming back and being "the man". Incredible.

[jcj0427]

Some of Cotto's fans are fans of Sergio's too oddly enough. Wanting him to come back and end his career on a better note doesn't necessarily mean it's benefit Cotto's career when it's looked back on.

Come on to boxing forum and cheering on your favorite fighter? You suck Cotto fans.

I doubt any Cotto fans are Sergio fans. Maybe after the fight because he's a classy dude. Their fighting styles are polar opposites. Cotto fans crave for legitimacy so they'll probably pick Sergio to win in his next fight against anybody!