Cuauhtemoc1520's take on this weekend 7/12/2014

[SplitSecond]

i've been waiting for this ***in thread, bout time

[Doctor_Tenma]

This is the thing, a trainer doesn't have strings to his fighter like a puppet. (Believe me we wish we did LOL)

In reality you create a game plan that best fits your fighter and what you want to do against the opponent. In this case, I thought the game plan was correct, I just thought that Lara didn't take enough chances and the reason is because he realized that Canelo is a better boxer than he expected.

If you look at the Angulo vs Lara fight, Lara stood more in front of Angulo because he was easily out boxing him. So Angulo had to just absorb shots, and hope his shots ended the fight, which they almost did.

Against Canelo, he stood in front of him for a second, and realized that Canelo can box. So the more he stood there, the bigger chance he was going to get caught with a big shot and he wasn't trying to risk that. Which is fine if you are moving and punching, which IMO Lara wasn't doing enough.

He was moving well, throwing a 1-2, then moving off for the rest of the round. Then Canelo spent the rest of the round chasing him, landing a jab here and there and some hard body shots. So who do you give that round to? Incredibly hard to decide.

I think the game plan by Ronnie Shields was correct, but I guarantee you behind closed doors Shields was telling Lara that he had to throw more and take a little bit more risks.

I predicted that going in, may have not got the better from long distance but he was gonna hold his own at times from range, with the jab or using feints to make Lara reset. It's like I said, one doesn't move from corner to corner second guessing their attack for no apparent reason, Lara was threatened by Canelo's game/ body punching. Those body punches were the more effective punches throughout the night. Round 4 is a favorite of mines, Canelo coming through like "Thought this was gonna be all you?"

[CubanGuyNYC]

In the first 3-4 rounds it was a very tough fight to score because neither man was really doing much. I gave those early rounds to Lara because he was moving a lot, but was landing 1-2's more often and keeping Canelo at distance. Then in the middle to later rounds, Lara stopped punching. I think there was a moment in the fight where Lara realized that Canelo is not only more powerful than he thought, but a better boxer than he expected.

Mayweather vs Canelo played out much different and the comparisons aren't justified IMO. Mayweather moved yes, but also stood in front of Canelo and made him pay. He realized that Canelo was nowhere near the boxer he was, and standing in front of him wasn't really a risk. Where as Lara I think realized that the longer he stood in front of Canelo, the more risk it was because eventually he was going to get caught.

I think so, too.

Canelo did have a hard time cutting the ring off, but that's again because he comes forward but with caution. He's not going to come in like Angulo face first and risk getting caught with a big shot. Instead he was taking angles, using the jab effectively and going to the body beautifully. I do think those body shots also affected Lara even though he wouldn't admit it.

Canelo followed Lara around the ring all night. He simply doesn't know how to cut-off a fighter. Those body shots, when they landed, definitely got Lara's attention. I'm pretty sure that Landy would've engaged more if he didn't feel Alvarez's power.

I scored it 7-5 for Canelo, but I think a draw would have been justified. These fights are incredibly hard to judge because it depends on what style you like more. Do you score it for Lara who used better defense, movement and landed more head shots? Or do you score it for Canelo who pressured, used effective aggression and landed the better body shots and harder punches?

This is a fact of life, and even seasoned judges think this way. However, I would argue that, in a perfect world, it shouldn't make a difference. But this world ain't perfect, is it?

It's a tough call and 115-113 either way was understandable but that last judge at 117-111 was a disgrace. Lara screwed himself though, he talked a lot leading up to the fight, he wanted this fight and called it the fight of his life and then shows up and.....DUD. Just doesn't do anything and thinks he's still in the Pan American games fighting in the international amateur system. This is the pro's and boxing and moving is great, but you have to land shots eventually. The Cuban school of boxing is fantastic....for the amateurs. For the pro's they need to learn to adjust, and understand that what wins in the end is throwing punches, it is boxing when all is said and done.

I think that'll happen soon enough. This is the biggest fight a Cuban has been a part of in decades. Others will take note. It's not enough to make your opponent miss and land a few scoring shots. I think we'll be seeing some great Cuban boxer-punchers (my favorite style) in time. Everyone will remember what happened to Lara.

[LoadedWraps]

Honestly, I don't even remember seeing Canelo land all those huge power shots. He landed punches but it's not like he was pounding Lara. And he only outlanded Lara in 3 rds. I had Lara winning, just my opinion.

So did I, I still need to watch it again, but it's not the first time I disagree on more than one level with cuahtehmoc.

[CubanGuyNYC]

This is the thing, a trainer doesn't have strings to his fighter like a puppet. (Believe me we wish we did LOL)

In reality you create a game plan that best fits your fighter and what you want to do against the opponent. In this case, I thought the game plan was correct, I just thought that Lara didn't take enough chances and the reason is because he realized that Canelo is a better boxer than he expected.

If you look at the Angulo vs Lara fight, Lara stood more in front of Angulo because he was easily out boxing him. So Angulo had to just absorb shots, and hope his shots ended the fight, which they almost did.

Against Canelo, he stood in front of him for a second, and realized that Canelo can box. So the more he stood there, the bigger chance he was going to get caught with a big shot and he wasn't trying to risk that. Which is fine if you are moving and punching, which IMO Lara wasn't doing enough.

He was moving well, throwing a 1-2, then moving off for the rest of the round. Then Canelo spent the rest of the round chasing him, landing a jab here and there and some hard body shots. So who do you give that round to? Incredibly hard to decide.

I think the game plan by Ronnie Shields was correct, but I guarantee you behind closed doors Shields was telling Lara that he had to throw more and take a little bit more risks.

Wow. This is just a great post. Couldn't agree more.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

I predicted that going in, may have not got the better from long distance but he was gonna hold his own at times from range, with the jab or using feints to make Lara reset. It's like I said, one doesn't move from corner to corner second guessing their attack for no apparent reason, Lara was threatened by Canelo's game/ body punching. Those body punches were the more effective punches throughout the night. Round 4 is a favorite of mines, Canelo coming through like "Thought this was gonna be all you?"

Fantastic point, and you are 100% correct. You don't move off, to move off. You move because of something your opponent is doing, which I think Canelo showed he can box with Lara.

Look at the first few rounds, even though I gave Lara those rounds, Canelo was landing the jab at distance which I think surprised Lara. When that usually happens, you think to yourself that this guy is faster than expected.

Canelo also landed the jab vs Mayweather too, which I think surprised him but he made the proper adjustments.

I think Lara is an incredible boxer, he moves so fluid and with such ease. I just wish he decided in the fight to take a chance, because there is a possibility he could have hurt Canelo, or really made him look bad by landing some bigger shots.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Canelo followed Lara around the ring all night. He simply doesn't know how to cut-off a fighter. Those body shots, when they landed, definitely got Lara's attention. I'm pretty sure that Landy would've engaged more if he didn't feel Alvarez's power.

To give Lara more respect though, he's hard to corral. He moves so well, and if you watch the fight, I don't think spent one second on the ropes. That's credit to how good Lara can move and change direction on a dime.

This is a fact of life, and even seasoned judges think this way. However, I would argue that, in a perfect world, it shouldn't make a difference. But this world ain't perfect, is it?

No it's not and at the end of the day, boxing is going to be judged subjectively, not objectively.

I think that'll happen soon enough. This is the biggest fight a Cuban has been a part of in decades. Others will take note. It's not enough to make your opponent miss and land a few scoring shots. I think we'll be seeing some great Cuban boxer-punchers (my favorite style) in time. Everyone will remember what happened to Lara.

I agree, the more we see Cubans in the pro's the more they will adjust. Casamayor made a career of it, and towards the end of his career, was one of the most exciting fighters to watch IMO. I loved watching El Cepillo.

[ShoulderRoll]

Do you think that Mares looked bad because of ring rust, or because Virgil Hunter might not be the best trainer for him?

[-MAKAVELLI-]

IronDan, Dazed and now Cuah has said the Canelo fight was a stinker...i aint watchin that **** on Saturday

[LoadedWraps]

IronDan, Dazed and now Cuah has said the Canelo fight was a stinker...i aint watchin that **** on Saturday

It was. I have yet to rewatch and rescore it but I am not in a rush too, it was a boring fight more than not.