Is there a SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE that Pacquiao USED STEROIDS?

[IronDanHamza]

he turned down floyd treating him like a fcking cheater.

that's what he did.

pacquiao has never denied any tests his sport's ruling bodies required of him.

Ok or in other words he turned down a stricter drug test and thus the fight fell through.

Word it how you want but the fact is hats what happened.

Again not evidence and doesn't mean he was or is on something but it's obviously going to cause su****ion if someone turns down a certain drug test. That's just natural.

[Elroy1]

FINALLY.

something to properly debate.


lets see,

the weight?

pacquiao didnt really move up in weight. he moved up in division. the reason why he was still cut when moving up in weight was because he didnt cut weight. at all.

welterweight is his natural walking around weight.

why do you think when he was first fighting at welterweight he cant even come in at 147. he was tipping the scales at at 142, 145.

What do most boxers do nowadays?

they take advantage of the rehydration rules by fighting in divisions they are too small for to get a size and power advantage.

the overwhelming majority of fighters have to train to make weight. that's why in today's era, featherweights weigh in at 126lbs but come fight night they are lightweights and welterweights.

welterweights weigh in at 147 and are junior middleweights by fight night.

What pacquiao did in terms of division climbing has been done before countless times throughout boxing history IN EVEN MORE PRONOUNCED FASHION THAT WHAT PACQUIAO DID.

the fact that you used that as your evidence tells me you dont know much about boxing history.

Now now cut the crap at the end and we might be able to dicuss this properly. I make it my BUSINESS to dissect boxing history all the time, mostly in a critical sense.

I have seen historically, boxers GROW into higher weights, not just adolescent growth, it's shown that people and boxers generally increase in weight as they age (atleast until boxing retirement age).

This could have occurred with Pac. But not to the degree shown.

So what your really saying is that "natural" WW Pac was previously stripping down, burning up all his muscle mass in the process to make lighter weights?

Am I correct?

That does offer a plausible explanation. But it doesn't appear that way!

Previous era boxers who did that achieved the kind of look early Pac did. Skinny, juicy. Because their training and diet were rubbish!

Pac has always trained with the highest intensity routines designed to preserve muscle mass and furthermore the dehydration routine leaves the boxer looking ripped as a bodybuilder, not like what we seen Pac in his early days.

For me, the transformation of Pac is so striking it isn't even debatable but you have given it a good try.

[Doctor_Tenma]

he turned down floyd treating him like a fcking cheater.

that's what he did.

pacquiao has never denied any tests his sport's ruling bodies required of him.

The ******ity of the bold

[The Big Dunn]

he turned down floyd treating him like a fcking cheater.

that's what he did.

pacquiao has never denied any tests his sport's ruling bodies required of him.

AT some point you have to stop making excuses for his refusal by trying to make it about the type of person you believe Floyd is or how he treated Manny. Its nothing that hadn't been done before. Its also no different than the things Manny asked for that Floyd accepted.

Manny's refusal to take the tests as requested is on him and his team. Any damage done to his integrity or credibility by refusing is a self inflicted wound.

[The Tase]

Depends what you allow yourself to accept as solid and irrefutable.

For example, If you get stopped for su****ion of DUI/DWI and you refuse to take police administered tests they treat that the same as a driver that takes the test and its positive. You are booked and charged. The person arrested hasn't tested positive so you can't say "for sure" the person is driving while on drugs or alcohol, but their behavior and actions (i.e the refusal to take a test) is used as evidence to establish probable cause that they used.

On you r job, if you work for a private company, failure to take a drug test is treated the same as if you test positive-you are terminated.

Refusing to take tests eliminates the ability to collect "solid and irrefutable: evidence. As such, refusing to take a test is an action that is considered "solid and irrefutable" evidence of use and its treated the same as a positive.

This in no way means I am saying or suggesting Manny tested positive.

horrible fcking analogy.

try this:

-imagine being accused of theft ( floyd accusing pacquiao of steroid use)

-police is called, they investigate find no evidence and let you go and deem you innocent (pacquiao has taken and pass all tests his sport's governing body requires)

-but the accuser is not satisfied, he really thinks you committed a crime and he wants to use private investigator and he expects you to cooperate even though the law said no crime was committed no evidence (floyd wanting to use tests never done before in the history of professional prize fighting against a fighter with zero evidence of ped use who has passed all tests his sport's ruling body require of him)

if that scenario happened in real life,

would you or anybody bow down to a paranoid insecure dbag accusing you of theft even though the official law deemed you innocent?

[Deevel916]

AT some point you have to stop making excuses for his refusal by trying to make it about the type of person you believe Floyd is or how he treated Manny. Its nothing that hadn't been done before. Its also no different than the things Manny asked for that Floyd accepted.

Manny's refusal to take the tests as requested is on him and his team. Any damage done to his integrity or credibility by refusing is a self inflicted wound.

How about trying to be unbiased for once and/or at least tell the truth. Not once did Pac ever refuse to take the test. The issue at hand was a cutoff date that both him and Floyd couldnt agree on. It stalled at Pac wanting 21 days and Floyd wanting 14 days. At that point the fight was called off due to both camps being unable to reach an agreement. During the next round of negotiations Pac gave in and agreed to the 14 days with Floyd moving the goal post and requesting 0 days.

Now this is my question. If Pac made concessions to agree to Floyd's original 14 cutoff, why would Floyd retract if he REALLY wanted to make the fight? It was a this point where Ross Greenberg of HBO sports stated when asked about why isnt the fight happening..."You're going to have to ask Floyd Mayweather why"

[The Tase]

Now now cut the crap at the end and we might be able to dicuss this properly. I make it my BUSINESS to dissect boxing history all the time, mostly in a critical sense.

I have seen historically, boxers GROW into higher weights, not just adolescent growth, it's shown that people and boxers generally increase in weight as they age (atleast until boxing retirement age).

This could have occurred with Pac. But not to the degree shown.

So what your really saying is that "natural" WW Pac was previously stripping down, burning up all his muscle mass in the process to make lighter weights?

Am I correct?

That does offer a plausible explanation. But it doesn't appear that way!

Previous era boxers who did that achieved the kind of look early Pac did. Skinny, juicy. Because their training and diet were rubbish!

Pac has always trained with the highest intensity routines designed to preserve muscle mass and furthermore the dehydration routine leaves the boxer looking ripped as a bodybuilder, not like what we seen Pac in his early days.

For me, the transformation of Pac is so striking it isn't even debatable but you have given it a good try.

you dont know **** about boxing history with that garbage post.

Here get some knowledge because i have to go to work and dont have the time for this ******ity:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342904

read every post in there from the historians of this site (never see you in the history section) and educate yourself.

moron.

[IronDanHamza]

How about trying to be unbiased for once and/or at least tell the truth. Not once did Pac ever refuse to take the test. The issue at hand was a cutoff date that both him and Floyd couldnt agree on. It stalled at Pac wanting 21 days and Floyd wanting 14 days. At that point the fight was called off due to both camps being unable to reach an agreement. During the next round of negotiations Pac gave in and agreed to the 14 days with Floyd moving the goal post and requesting 0 days.

Now this is my question. If Pac made concessions to agree to Floyd's original 14 cutoff, why would Floyd retract if he REALLY wanted to make the fight? It was a this point where Ross Greenberg of HBO sports stated when asked about why isnt the fight happening..."You're going to have to ask Floyd Mayweather why"

Well Floyd did say during the original negotiations that if Pacquaio doesn't agree to 14 days then it will be off the table and if they negotiate again it will without a cut off date.

Then down the line conveniently 14 days is ok.

[Doctor_Tenma]

How about trying to be unbiased for once and/or at least tell the truth. Not once did Pac ever refuse to take the test. The issue at hand was a cutoff date that both him and Floyd couldnt agree on. It stalled at Pac wanting 21 days and Floyd wanting 14 days. At that point the fight was called off due to both camps being unable to reach an agreement. During the next round of negotiations Pac gave in and agreed to the 14 days with Floyd moving the goal post and requesting 0 days.

Now this is my question. If Pac made concessions to agree to Floyd's original 14 cutoff, why would Floyd retract if he REALLY wanted to make the fight? It was a this point where Ross Greenberg of HBO sports stated when asked about why isnt the fight happening..."You're going to have to ask Floyd Mayweather why"

It was shortly after Pacquiao signed to face Clottey that Mayweather took the 14 days off the table, he was well within his right to do so. Also, this wasn't about cutoff dates realistically speaking, if we're being honest with ourselves Pacquiao wanted nothing to do with random drug testing, his initial demands exposed all that.

[The Big Dunn]

horrible fcking analogy.

try this:

-imagine being accused of theft ( floyd accusing pacquiao of steroid use)

-police is called, they investigate find no evidence and let you go and deem you innocent (pacquiao has taken and pass all tests his sport's governing body requires)

-but the accuser is not satisfied, he really thinks you committed a crime and he wants to use private investigator and he expects you to cooperate even though the law said no crime was committed no evidence (floyd wanting to use tests never done before in the history of professional prize fighting against a fighter with zero evidence of ped use who has passed all tests his sport's ruling body require of him)

if that scenario happened in real life,

would you or anybody bow down to a paranoid insecure dbag accusing you of theft even though the official law deemed you innocent?

Only you would say an analogy using actual drug/alcohol testing is terrible when discussing drug testing.

First off, the testing he passed was not good enough to catch any illegal use. We all know this. You keep defaulting to that as saying "zero evidence." There are never fingerprints when people wear gloves.

Further, There is a reason the local police don't investigate federal crimes like the FBI. The police are the law, but they are not equipped to deal with the kinds of criminals and/or crimes the FBI deals with.

You also are leaving out that both parties would be taking the tests, not just Manny. Further, when JMM later on asked that they both take same tests, he refused again

The bottom line is you are someone who always tries to make it about who Floyd is to justify Manny refusing to take tests. There is no justification. Period.

Just like floyd when he does something ******, Manny did this to himself.