Top 15 Welterweights of the 21st Century

[Ham Porter]

Only problem with that is the JMM fight looks like that, the Mosley fight looks like that, the Ghost fight looks like that. ALL of Floyd's fights look that way. His whole resume he just made it look easy. Againt Canelo he beat him WORSE than Mosley. He stood in the pocket and walked him down.

I too, was very impressed with the Nelo dominance as well.

Marquez - bloated, ill-prepared lightweight that was moving up two divisions and subsequently cheated on the scales.

Mosley - washed up, nearly 40 years of age and coming off of a 15 month layoff.

Guerrero - exceptionally average plodder.


And how much credit can you give Mayweather for beating a relatively unproven (albeit well marketed and popular) fighter that he had to impose a catchweight on? By Floyd's own logic, such a win shouldn't count.


When you think about it, the last five years of Mayweather's career have been even better choreographed than his epic battle with the Big Show at Wrestlemania.

[MurkaMan]

Marquez - bloated, ill-prepared lightweight that was moving up two divisions and subsequently cheated on the scales.

Mosley - washed up, nearly 40 years of age and coming off of a 15 month layoff.

Guerrero - exceptionally average plodder.


And how much credit can you give Mayweather for beating a relatively unproven (albeit well marketed and popular) fighter that he had to impose a catchweight on? By Floyd's own logic, such a win shouldn't count.


When you think about it, the last five years of Mayweather's career have been even better choreographed than his epic battle with the Big Show at Wrestlemania.

So all of them are bums right? Name a fighter in history that can fight a bloated JMM and do a million pull counters from all angles and make him look foolish...

Surely Pernell whitaker may win, but he isnt doing any Mayweather moves.

Matter of fact name ONE fighter in history that can fight all of these bums and change their whole fighting style to dominate each bum without getting grazed by a single shot.

And you never should have brought up his ATG performance against Nelo. He stood in the pocket and OVERPOWERED this man that he doesnt even have the power to hurt. Walked him down and didnt get hissed. Srl would stand in the pocket with Nelo and avoid even MORE shots than Floyd right?

GTFO!!!

Your one of these guys who exaggerate about his resume to find ways to talk around his skillset.

I dont give Floyd credit for beating anyone. I give him credit for standing in front of these guys and doing magic, DOMINATING them. Their will NEVER be a fighter better than him. Thats the best fighter skillwise EVER. Your one of the guys who will do whatever it takes to avoid admitting it lol

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Margarito TKO 7 Sergio Martinez @ 147

Serg didn't have much if a resume at 147, it wasn't a big fight at the time it happened, so that's why I didn't list till it's a good win but not on par with other big wins

soul_survivor - Surely Judah is far too high and can't be ahead of Margarito?

Sugar Adam Ali - Forrest's two wins over Mosley are certainly amongst the very best wins this century at Welterweight but he also lost twice to Mayorga, now does that make Mayorga's wins over Forrest more impressive than Forrest's wins over Mosley? Whatever the evaluation surely Pacquiao is ahead of Forrest.

Forrest reigned longer at welter and was a long time titlist when he fought Shane. Mayorga beat Lewis, then Forrest twice and then lost to spinks.. His reign wasn't long at all..

I just feel Forrest was a top 3 p4p guy and yes mayorga beat him, but overall I feel Forrest had a better welter career, plus he was fighter of the year in 2002

In terms of manny, he doesn't have the big wins that can match Forrest wins over Shane,, the cotto win is great but it was a catchweight, and cotto had already been beat down by margs. Impressive but not on par as beating a prime undefeated Shane twice in a row.,,

[Mr.Fantastic]

Serg didn't have much if a resume at 147, it wasn't a big fight at the time it happened, so that's why I didn't list till it's a good win but not on par with other big wins

There goes Jones' win over Hopkins by your logic.

[RetroSpeed05]

I just realized you did exactly what I said you would do. You took the worst version of Floyd to throw him in a fantasy fight. The Madaina fight. The idea of you even doing such fkery, lets me know your one of the guys who wants to find ways to talk around his skillset.

Floyds best physical prime was around 130-140 tops i took the 147 Floyd if i take Floyd at 130 who was a beast at offense and defense, then it would be pointless because all the Fantasy opponents we were debating were 147lbers.
Now if You talk about ATG's from 130 -135 then ya i think beats a lot of them.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

There goes Jones' win over Hopkins by your logic.

Totally different... If it's not a meaningful fight when it happens, I don't give it that much credit.. What fights did serg win at welter and vs who...

Hopkins was an actual #1 contender, was the reigning usba regional champ, and only got the Roy fight for a vacant belt because he was thought of as an espn caliber fighter and nothing special,,
But then Hopkins reigned at middleweight for over a decade and 20 defenses..

How many welter title fights, and defenses did serg have,,

Going by just welter achievements, serg is nothing.. He didn't hit big till 154

Did hbo show the margs-serg fight, or showtime,,, Roy-Hopkins was PPv from rfk stadium...
2 totally different scenarios

[Mr.Fantastic]

Totally different... If it's not a meaningful fight when it happens, I don't give it that much credit.. What fights did serg win at welter and vs who...

Hopkins was an actual #1 contender, was the reigning usba regional champ, and only got the Roy fight for a vacant belt because he was thought of as an espn caliber fighter and nothing special,,
But then Hopkins reigned at middleweight for over a decade and 20 defenses..

How many welter title fights, and defenses did serg have,,

Going by just welter achievements, serg is nothing.. He didn't hit big till 154

Did hbo show the margs-serg fight, or showtime,,, Roy-Hopkins was PPv from rfk stadium...
2 totally different scenarios

No, it wasn't. In fact Sergio was the one going in supposedly the one moving up and Margarito was the stepping stone.

Both were green and Sergio was undefeated while Margarito suffered several defeats already.

[MurkaMan]

Floyds best physical prime was around 130-140 tops i took the 147 Floyd if i take Floyd at 130 who was a beast at offense and defense, then it would be pointless because all the Fantasy opponents we were debating were 147lbers.
Now if You talk about ATG's from 130 -135 then ya i think beats a lot of them.

Nah u did it because you wanna talk around his skillset. I specifically said 2013 Mayweather. then you referred to what he did in 2014.

At the lower weights he used to move around the ring and use in and out movement a bit.

But at 147 and highers its a completely different fighter and although not as much of a combination puncher, a much more discipline complete package. Picking shots better, bigger, stronger, stockier build. Stands in a wide stance, right in front of you, and does magic. He wasnt doing that at the lower weights. Two different fighters and Im impressed by both for different reasons. 147 Mayweather is not worse than the one at lower weights at all. Just brings something different to the table as far as maturity.

I like both, but at the lower weights he reminds me of a better version of Pernell.

At the higher weights this is a customized fighter who is similar to no one. And dont say James Toney. James uses that shoulder roll but he aint no Mayweather.

[Ham Porter]

And you never should have brought up his ATG performance against Nelo. He stood in the pocket and OVERPOWERED this man that he doesnt even have the power to hurt. Walked him down and didnt get hissed. Srl would stand in the pocket with Nelo and avoid even MORE shots than Floyd right?

Simply pointing out the facts, my man. Floyd is of the belief that fighters who request catchweights are essentially trying to cheat and that such wins/losses shouldn't really be counted.

[Humean]

Serg didn't have much if a resume at 147, it wasn't a big fight at the time it happened, so that's why I didn't list till it's a good win but not on par with other big wins



Forrest reigned longer at welter and was a long time titlist when he fought Shane. Mayorga beat Lewis, then Forrest twice and then lost to spinks.. His reign wasn't long at all..

I just feel Forrest was a top 3 p4p guy and yes mayorga beat him, but overall I feel Forrest had a better welter career, plus he was fighter of the year in 2002

In terms of manny, he doesn't have the big wins that can match Forrest wins over Shane,, the cotto win is great but it was a catchweight, and cotto had already been beat down by margs. Impressive but not on par as beating a prime undefeated Shane twice in a row.,,

But if you are placing so much stock in big wins, and particular Forrest's two big wins over Mosley, then why does Mayorga's wins over Forrest not carry as much value, or indeed more, than Forrest's?

Neither Mayorga nor Forrest did a great deal at welterweight outside their two notable wins. Mayorga's win over Lewis might be better than any of Forrest's other welterweight wins.

Surely Forrest was considered a pound for pound guy almost solely off the back of defeating Mosley twice as Mosley was considered by the Ring as the p4p #1. Those two wins elevated Forrest to p4p #4 but when Mayorga defeated Forrest twice it never elevated Mayorga into the top 10 p4p. In hindsight I think it is clear that Mosley was slightly overrated at the time.

Pacquiao has wins over Marquez and Bradley, and I think it is correct to consider him to have had two wins over Bradley. Cotto was at a catchweight but does that matter a great deal? He also battered him up pretty bad. Plus he has Clottey, Mosley, Rios and De La Hoya, you could of course question just how good any of those four wins really are but taken as a whole then even with an unfavourable outlook on them it still represents a fairly solid group of wins to be added to the more substantial wins over Bradley, Cotto and Marquez. Pacquiao also only really has one loss at welterweight whereas Forrest has two. I think it is very clear that Pacquiao ranks higher than Forrest and that the question is whether he ranks higher than Mayweather.