The Greatness of Wladimir Klitschko

[Dr.Eisenfaust]

Aaaaaand the king of the ******s has spoken !!

Your answer clearly showed who the ****** is...

We're saying the same thing...Haye has a shaky jaw... hence his overly defensive strategy vs Wlad. If he'd had the stones to trade with Wlad we may have seen some shattered glass. I'd actually forgotten about that KD. Great recovery from Haye

Oh, that's okay. For a minute I thought you were a Fat Yank who's only seen four fights and thought he knew it top to bottom.

Not that you gave off that vibe, but this site is full of Fat Yanks who've only seen four fights and...

[crold1]

Do some research.

Max Schmeling was KOed by journeymen several times before he fought Louis (including someone with a 0-0-1 opponent). Joe Louis, considered the #2 HW of all time next to Ali, wasn't at the end of his career when he was knocked out by Max Schmeling.

Ezzard Charles was beaten by journeymen in the early-to-mid part of his career.

Joe Walcott lost to Johnny Allen (11-15-1) and other journeymen long before he became HW champ.

What journeyman beat Charles early to mid of his career? Tunero (and he wasn't a journeyman) and Ray might be who you're referring to, and Ray was widely seen as horse****. Overlin was a championship level guy early on and Bivins and Marshall are both in the Hall. From 40 until Walcott III, that's about it. If you measure mid by years that's fine but that was a product of fighting years past peak. From 44-51, he made one of the greatest runs in history in terms of win/loss record and opposition beat.

Don't read BoxRec without any thought. It's bad for you.

That said, Wlad is underrated, will likely go down as a top ten all-time and at peak was a much better and more accomplished fighter than his more carefully matched brother. Debate how great if folks will, but he's a great Heavyweight and I'd already rate him over all three that you reference there (at heavyweight; overall, Charles is eons better than Wlad. Top 15 Middle arguably and the greatest Light Heavy ever walked Earth). Charles was about right place right time. He wasn't a big Heavyweight at all. There are only a few of the smaller, pre-Liston era Heavies who I think match up well enough to win against Wlad and smaller technicians like Charles and Walcott are not them.

[Boxing Goat]

Is a draw not a decision then?

When one says a fighter got a gift decision, it obviously means they got a gift win. Stop trying to cover up a **** up and get on with the hatery.

[Rousseau]

Wladimir is among the 5 greatest HW's of all time.

[ßringer]

I know how to spell it, I just don't care.

And I totally believe you.

No, really.

[Boxing Goat]

And I totally believe you.

No, really.

Good, we are on the internet and have a spell check built into the forum if you think it would have been hard to check the actual spelling there bud.

[Boxing Goat]

What journeyman beat Charles early to mid of his career? Tunero (and he wasn't a journeyman) and Ray might be who you're referring to, and Ray was widely seen as horse****. Overlin was a championship level guy early on and Bivins and Marshall are both in the Hall. From 40 until Walcott III, that's about it. If you measure mid by years that's fine but that was a product of fighting years past peak. From 44-51, he made one of the greatest runs in history in terms of win/loss record and opposition beat.

Don't read BoxRec without any thought. It's bad for you.

That said, Wlad is underrated, will likely go down as a top ten all-time and at peak was a much better and more accomplished fighter than his more carefully matched brother. Debate how great if folks will, but he's a great Heavyweight and I'd already rate him over all three that you reference there (at heavyweight; overall, Charles is eons better than Wlad. Top 15 Middle arguably and the greatest Light Heavy ever walked Earth). Charles was about right place right time. He wasn't a big Heavyweight at all. There are only a few of the smaller, pre-Liston era Heavies who I think match up well enough to win against Wlad and smaller technicians like Charles and Walcott are not them.

The bolded part is all you need to read to understand how bias and ignorant this undeserving clown is. It's pitiful.

This knothead like lost a moment in time or something when Vitali knocked out two of the guys that abused Wladimir and gave ATG Lennox Lewis his toughest fight.

[Boxing Goat]

No matter what Wladimir Klitschko does, there will always be people who believe he's no good.

He has three losses. But the #1 HW of all time, Muhammed Ali, has five losses.

Some of Wlad's opponents were not very good. But Ali, besides fighting good opposition, fought a lot of journeymen like Richard Dunn who were no better than Wlad's worst title defenses. He was knocked down by Chuck Wepner. He lost to a 6-0 Leon Spinks, who was KOed by Gerrie Coatzee in round one. Yet he's supposed to be the best HW of all time.

Jack Johnson has 11 losses, Max Schmeling has 10 (some to worse opponents than Wlad lost to, such as 47-loss Daniels and 37-39 Taylor). Walcott has 18 losses, Charles has 25. Yet some people cannot forgive Wlad's three losses, despite the excellent run he's had since then.

If Wladimir Klitschko were to somehow go back in time and beat prime Dempsey, prime Louis, prime Ali and prime Holmes, some people would still not respect him. Instead, they'd start ridiculing the fighters he beat and call them bums.

A hundred years ago some people refused to accept Jack Johnson as HW champion and just said said the division was no good at that time, because Johnson was black. Similarly, there are some people who refuse to believe that Wladimir Klitschko is a top ten ATG heavyweight because they feel the HW champ should be American and black.

It is futile to try and debate those who hate Wladimir. They will never change. It's like trying to convince a KKK member in 1910 to respect Jack Johnson.

One of the #Greatest.Posts.Ever.

[Boxing Goat]

Aaaaaand the king of the ******s has spoken !!

Indeed, you just did.