Do you think Duran top 10 P4P list???

[cple]

Duran, a natural 135 pounder, begain his career at bantamweight. Let's put his "biggest" fights in perspective.

vs. Ray Leonard: 12 pounds above his prime weight against a consensus top 3-4 welterweight of all-time. The fact that he was able to beat Leonard once is amazing enough. People make out the "no mas" fight to be a complete humiliation/clinic. The judges' scores were 4-2-1, 4-2-1 and 4-3 at the time of the stoppage. Hardly a dominating performance by Leonard.

vs. Thomas Hearns: 19 pounds above his natural weight against probably one of the the two best 154 pound fighters to ever live.

vs. Marvin Hagler: 25 pounds above his optimum weight class of 135 against a consensus top 3-5 middleweight ever; some regard him as the greatest. And Duran was able to hold his own.

Look at these fights. They occurred past his prime and at his opponents's best weight classes. These fights should not be too detrimental to Duran's legacy. Shamefully though, they are.

To see his greatness, all you need to do is see him in action when he was at his best. His fury, ferociousness, and relentlessness were second to none. Unfortunately though, they often seem to overshadow his immense skill. In my opinion, he was the best in-fighter of all-time and possessed an insanely underrated defense. Watch his fights closely; in his prime, he rarely got hit solidly. His all-around skill allowed him to set a record for most consecutive defense of the lightweight title (12) and win a slew of other titles against absolutely stellar opposition.

Top 10 easily in my book.

[JoartCC]

I personally don't think he deserves to be in the alltime top 10 P4P list. Top 30 yes, but top 10 no way.

He lost many of his big fights, even when he was at lightweight he lost to De Jesus in the first fight.

Roberto Duran is known to be the greatest lightweight of all time by most people from the press, but the problem I have with this is Duran didn't beat many great fighters as a lightweight to be considered the greatest lightweight of all time. Shane Mosley was very similar to Duran he was also beating everyone at lightweight, also Mosley beat many C+ fighters as lightweight.

These are the biggest fights from Duran's legendary career. He has a few more, but to me these are the biggest fights.

Hagler - It was not even close in my book, I hear some people say that this fight was close, I own the fight, I had Hagler winning clearly.

Leonard - Fought Leonard 3 times, lost twice. Also some people believe that he lost all 3 fights against Leonard.

Hearns - Lost by KO - Never fought Hearns again

Benitez- Lost - Never fought Benitez again

De Jesus - lost the first fight in the lightweights, but won the other 2 against De Jesus

Yes Duran was a great fighter, but top 10 P4P is pushing it.

Exactly my point. A guy who loses to just about every elite in his era is not top 10 p4p great.

[JoartCC]

Duran, a natural 135 pounder, begain his career at bantamweight. Let's put his "biggest" fights in perspective.

vs. Ray Leonard: 12 pounds above his prime weight against a consensus top 3-4 welterweight of all-time. The fact that he was able to beat Leonard once is amazing enough. People make out the "no mas" fight to be a complete humiliation/clinic. The judges' scores were 4-2-1, 4-2-1 and 4-3 at the time of the stoppage. Hardly a dominating performance by Leonard.

vs. Thomas Hearns: 19 pounds above his natural weight against probably one of the the two best 154 pound fighters to ever live.

vs. Marvin Hagler: 25 pounds above his optimum weight class of 135 against a consensus top 3-5 middleweight ever; some regard him as the greatest. And Duran was able to hold his own.

Look at these fights. They occurred past his prime and at his opponents's best weight classes. These fights should not be too detrimental to Duran's legacy. Shamefully though, they are.

To see his greatness, all you need to do is see him in action when he was at his best. His fury, ferociousness, and relentlessness were second to none. Unfortunately though, they often seem to overshadow his immense skill. In my opinion, he was the best in-fighter of all-time and possessed an insanely underrated defense. Watch his fights closely; in his prime, he rarely got hit solidly. His all-around skill allowed him to set a record for most consecutive defense of the lightweight title (12) and win a slew of other titles against absolutely stellar opposition.

Top 10 easily in my book.

Greatness is measured by results pal. Not by some unvalidated excuse and conjured up alibis.

The fact is, he lost bad, he got KTFO, he quit.

Is that the kind of guy you put into your p4p list?

[JOM'S]

I grew up with these guys SGL, Hagler, Hearns and Duran and they will always be on my ALL-TIME FAVORITES...

[wmute]

duran became lightweight champ in 72.

in 81 he became welter weight champ (after dominating 135 for 7 years) by beating sugar ray leonard. then he lost the rematch, moved to 154 got KOed by hearns. moved to 160 and gave a close fight to hagler.

that is not top notch p4p for you?

seriuosly I don't know how much more can you ask:

this would have been like marvin hagler not losing to leonard, moving up to light heavy faces michael spinks for the title and winning, but then losing in a rematch. then losing and winning a few fights before being KOed by holyfield at cruiser and finally giving a run for his money to tyson at heavyweight.

[GunStar]

who do you rate higher? hagler or duran?

Hagler, no doubt about it. Also if I include Duran in the top 30 P4P all time list, that means he was a great fighter.

Anyone that knows alot about the history of boxing will know that we've had many great fighters. Being in top 30 of all time list is still impressive. But noway in hell Duran belongs in the top 10 all time list.

Yes he was a lightweight champ for along time but during a weak time. It would've been harder for Duran to stay at 135 then move up. Very similar to James Toney, people that loves to eat like Duran & Toney did, it his not hard for them to gain extra pounds. If Toney could've stayed all of his career as a middleweight, then he might of became the best middleweight ever, we don't know.

Do you know that Duran is like 220 pounds now.

[cple]

Greatness is measured by results pal. Not by some unvalidated excuse and conjured up alibis.

The fact is, he lost bad, he got KTFO, he quit.

Is that the kind of guy you put into your p4p list?

Where in my post did i write greatness wasn't measure by results? I was simply making an argument that those fights shouldn't be too detrimental to his legacy. In this case, you need to look past what's simply on paper. Put things into perspective. When judging a fighter's greatness, you can't just look at his win-loss record. You need to dig a little deeper than that.

[GunStar]

I grew up with these guys SGL, Hagler, Hearns and Duran and they will always be on my ALL-TIME FAVORITES...

I also grew up with these guys & I actually like Duran. If you put Duran in your top 30 all time list, that means you think he was great. But putting him in top 10 all time list is pushing it.

[MickyHatton]

Without any shadow of doubt a p4p top ten fighter!

For me the greatest Lightweight of all time, he lost once in over 12 years before moving up and that was to Esteban De Jesus who was a great Lightweight himself.

4 weight world champ and held his own against some of the greats in the higher weight divisions, true warrior, 103 fights with only 16 loses (Many in later years) and 70 Ko's, awesome fighter!

[GunStar]

Where in my post did i write greatness wasn't measure by results? I was simply making an argument that those fights shouldn't be too detrimental to his legacy. In this case, you need to look past what's simply on paper. Put things into perspective. When judging a fighter's greatness, you can't just look at his win-loss record. You need to dig a little deeper than that.

Those fights did alot to his legacy. If Duran would've never fought, Hagler, Leonard, Hearns & Benitez people from the press would've not talked about Duran the same way. Fact is he did lose those big fights against the other legendary fighters.

Fact is Duran was a great fighter in he belongs in the top 30, but not in top 10.